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Avoiding the Forbidden Confrontation with Delusional Disorder (DD)
To date, it seems that there are relatively very few large scale scientific studies and reports on Delusional Disorder (DD). This is because there are very few DD inpatients in the psychiatric hospital, only about 2-5%. But, the number of people with DD could be large in the world as seen in the Delusional Disorder Forum (http://www.psychforums.com:80/delusional-disorder/).
All the passages below are taken from the Delusional Disorder Forum and was initiated by bsc from May 2004 to Feb 2013
I have been posting here in the past few months, I have
not actually started a thread.
Much of what I say below will probably be repetitious - but here goes.
My readings on DD and other various personality disorders and mental illnesses, indicate that one should not confront the DD person or challenge their delusions.
My question is simply - how do you avoid it? Especially when they are directly asking you questions about how and why this was done to them. And especially when they are accusing you directly of being involved.
My afternoon phone call with my wife, for example, deteriorated pretty quickly. We referred to our conversation of the previous evening where we used the word, intuitive. She described the use of a piece of software, and how unexpectedly easy it was for her to use. I said it was intuitive, based on her previous experience with other software. She agreed that was a good word to use. This afternoon she said she had to look the word up in the dictionary. I asked why. She said her brain was too scrambled to really understand what we were talking about. I defended her intelligence by saying she knew perfectly well the meaning of the word and the discussion. She accused me of falsely boosting her ego to make her think she was normal, and she was tired of pretending to be normal. I said, as understanding as I could, I know you have these problems, but they're not really interfering with your ability to do things. She said she couldn't think clearly anymore and, of course, it was all my fault.
I wanted to say, you can go to the doctor and get help for your problems. But again, before I could say another word, she said, I am not crazy, there is no one for me to go to. I said there is nothing else I can do for her. She said I have to tell her what happened to her and why "we" did this to her (same old thing). I said I have nothing to tell her, because she only thinks this happened to her but it is something else inside her head that is at fault.
A loud verbal blast from the other end of the phone line, and a hang up, as usual.
Any advice on how to avoid these confrontations. Changing the subject rarely works because she calls me on those.
How can I avoid saying, none of these things happened to you. The other side of the coin is admitting she is right. Then I will have to explain all of the things she questions. Of course, thre aren't any explanations. Probably way too late for any of this.
By the way, glad to see MIC is keeping busy working hard. If my wife had an outside job and felt productive, perhaps she and I would be better off. And we could use the money.
Just a quick thought. Actually delusional disorder does cause one to get their thoughts all mixed up and confused. My boss indicated to a friend of mine that he noticed I wasn't as focused as usual just before I was hospitalized. This is part of the disorder. You could say you were concerned - not about her being crazy, but about her feeling like she can't think clearly.
Talk to your family doctor. Tell him/her what is happening and see if they would be willing to talk to her.
Then tell your wife that you talked to your doctor and you told him/her about her concerns that she is afraid she isn't thinking very clearly. Tell her, that since they now have medications for things like Alzheimer's, maybe there is a medication to help her think more clearly. Wait for the right moment - like the one you described here, where she says she notices it.
Then tell her that you talked with the doctor and he/she asked that she come in to see him/her; that maybe she needs to have some tests done to figure out if anything might be wrong with her.
The Risperdal that is perscribed for delusional disorder is also good at straightening out your thinking processes. That is what it is for, so I am sure that is the problem here. Of course, the suggestion might be taken better coming from a friend or other relative. Just a thought. Good luck.
MIC - thanks
for the thoughts and ideas. She is dead set against going back to our "family"
doctor. She stopped taking the HPB meds he prescribed. She insists they are part
of what is making her "crazy", although she hasn't taken any for about 4 months.
She feels that doctor is also in on "it".
She recently went to orthopedic dr for problems with her knee. He prescribed Celebrex for the arthritis he thought it was. She trusted him enough to take them for a while. Not sure if she is still taking them. She calls most drs quacks. One in particular, a few years ago, she insists, gave her an injection in her butt. She called up about a year later wanting to know what he gave her. He answered, nothing. There is no meds that he would administer that way. She didn't believe him, so now he is on the list of bad guys doing "this" to her. Can't win for losing.
I am just trying to figure out how to live with this and get along with her. But every word that comes out of my mouth is wrong. I even have to be careful what I glance at. I have been a very tolerant person over the last 2 and a half years. I can be very strong. I would like to avoid leaving her, although I refer to it in all my posts.
If I assume she will never get help, what do I need to do to survive with her? Most likely impossible.
You mentioned that mental confusion is not necessarily a symptom of DD. Actually my wife has symtoms of almost the whole DSM4 book. Before I bumped into DD I was looking at borderline, paranoid, manic, etc. The strongest symptoms are the delusions so I settled on that for me to concentrate on. Got to go....
Let me qualify first by saying I have never been in your situation, where I am one of the suspected people harming my loved one, so I throw out these suggestions as possiblities of alternative responses. Maybe you've already tried this approach...
I think of this as reflecting back what a person has just explained feeling wise and then commenting on those feelings in a way that honors them, acknowledges their emotional impact. Beyond that I don't try to fix the feelings or make them feel differently. It is a way of offering support without making the person's feelings wrong or misguided. Feelings are just feelings. We all have them. They aren't right or wrong.
To your wife you might say when she asks you why this is happening to her and why did you let it happen to her - one response might be to say - That must feel terrible to feel that your own husband would hurt you or betray you. To which she might say why did you? You might say, I know you feel confused and I would like to ease your pain but I don't know what to tell you that would do that. I know you are looking for answers from me. I wish I had those answers.
Kinda like that. Always refering back to her feelings and your regret that you can't be of more help. Telling her you love her in as many ways as you can think of can be helpful. Tone of voice is so important in these conversations. If you sound irritable and / or angry it will escalate to argument. Compassion is the key word. Remember always how much she is suffering and out of control of her own thought process. Remember how much you love her when your own impatience starts to rise.
I find the hardest time I have following my own advice is when I get sooooo tired of hearing the same story over and over again. Of hearing my husband curse to invisible people. I want my airspace calmer then life with him has allowed recently. I even confronted him with the treatment idea the other day as I had lost my patience. Of course it went nowhere and just wasted my breath.
I have much better days when I just stay calm with in my own mind and honor his feelings, offer support with care and compassion and relax into the " crazy " atmosphere of my homelife.
Hope this helps.
That was a great response, thanks!
I think it's the only approach that has a chance of working.
Acknowledge the feelings (pain, anger, etc.) and seek help for the feelings alone, not the source of the feelings.
I think this is somewhat different than just walking on eggshells everday.
All the best
Thanks Hab and Alex - yes, sometimes our conversations go in that direction a
little bit. When I ask her, why would I do that to you, I love you, she says I
am doing it for the money. I must have an arrangement with these "people" paying
me for the entertainment value of the video they must be making or putting it on
My next word would normally be "ridiculous". How can you think that of me? She usually says, very sarcastically, oh, play the martyr, you're so good and I'm so bad.
So the right reaction I should have, is to say nothing, shake my head, and say, ya right.
When I say (what you said), I wish I could help you and answer your questions, I get screamed at LIAR LIAR. You know exactly whats going on. It’s at that time that I feel in my pockets for the car keys and feel like a trapped animal ready to run, in a defensive mode. Then she may (if I am lucky) calm down, crying, I am probably going to spend the rest of my life like this. I say, you don't have to, you can get help. She screams, I am not crazy, I am not going anywhere. I say jokingly, under my breath, shoot (suit) yourself. She usually doesn't hear me.
It was a pretty good 4 day weekend at home (2 work at home days), wrapping up some misc tasks, eating steamed crabs (her favorite). She seemed almost normal except when a little stress came up.
Next weekend is also 4 days. It’s her birthday Sunday. I bought something for her that I have the feeling is going to arrive late in the mail. I better have some substitutes or there will be hell to pay.
She is already creating a problem by insisting I bake her a cake instead of buying it. Oh boy!!! Then she will have something to criticize.
Still walking on eggshells, it seems.
Acknowledging your wife's feelings and not her delusions is probably an even harder task. I think only Hab has managed to successfully walk this fine line.
I have made all the same mistakes as you, so you probably shouldn't listen to me!
Your last conversation (about being paid by the conspiracy): Of course it's "ridiculous!" But you don't need to be defensive and you don't even need to say it! Either says nothing and let it slide, or say something like "I'm sorry you feel that way." Even saying, "yeah right" is not going to be helpful.
You probably have to accept that anything you do won't be right. Baking a cake or buying a cake, no matter which you do it will be the wrong thing in her eyes, so just do what you want for a change!
Best of luck
Hope this is helpful
Your wife sounds exactly like my wife. There used to be a lot of confrontation in our household and bickering exactly as you describe. It’s much better today than it used to be....not because she has changed but because I have changed. You can disagree with her and her delusions and accusations without taking them personally; have an unemotional response. Set aside time for these kinds of discussions (i.e. don't let them become the only topic that the two of you discuss). You set the rules through informal agreements with her and then all should abide. For example, if she accuses you of talking about her reputation behind her back. You say, "Well we agreed to talk about your feelings every Sunday morning. Let's discuss on Sunday." When Sunday comes, talk it through with her without emotion but using some logic. If you feel frustrated or emotional. Take a walk. I hope this is helpful
Yours appears to be a new voice here at the Delusional Disorder Forum. Thanks for joining the converstion. You appear to have some experience with the disorder and have found novel ways of coping with it.
If you feel comfortable sharing more of your experiences with your wife and how you have managed you would be offering a lot to those of us here also struggling along. There are really only 7 of us who post regularly here. Reggie is a newcomer as well. Another perspective is positively positive for all of us.
I hope you will come around more often and share with us the wisdom you have gained sharing your life with a delusional loved one.
Guest and all - well my 4 day weekend went better than I expected. As I said
above, it was my wife's birthday Sunday so I think that helped temper the
Thursday night, I brought home live blue crabs to steam, from the big city where I work. That always puts her in a good mood. She bought the beer and rented a couple of movies, so we were set for the night.
Friday morning we went shopping for a replacement back door. Last winter she put a hammer through the old one. I put a temp interior door in, but now it has to be replaced. Much arguing about which door. Funny, I say arguing, but I am usually in agreement with her. She actually argues with herself but claims that me and my "cronies" are controlling her thoughts and that's why she is so confused. She (and we) takes forever to make a decision about even the most insignificant things. When she was finally convinced that we were both in agreement, we bought it. Delivery in a few weeks.
I told her I needed some time alone to complete some birthday shopping, since she loves surprises. I dropped her off at the mall to go shop elsewhere. We syncronized watches and cell phones. I told her I would be back in 40 minutes. By 30 minutes she called while I was in check out line. She said she was walking home. She said there was problems with the people in the mall. She couldn't find the right shoe size and "they" were preventing her from shopping. She told me the route she was walking. About 10 minutes later I find her walking down the middle of one of the busiest streets in town, shouting and swearing at cars, giving them the finger, etc. I pulled over, she got in and told me the whole litany of what the "people" were doing to her at the mall. She doesn't know how she can ever replace the worn out shoes she is "forced" to wear if she can't just go shopping like regular people. This is not the first time for the middle of the street circus. Has happened several times. Sure wish a cop would happen by so I could say, she is mentally ill, officer. would you please take her in to the hospital.
Went home and listened endlessly to her banter about what all these people are doing and how I should stop "them".
Saturday morning I went down to the post office to pick up her gift. Yes it arrived on time. Bought the other things, cards etc for her birthday. Went home and did bake her the cake. She did give me a few hints. Turned out well except for the deco. I never could color inside the lines. She was improving since she knew what her big present was going to be on Sunday.
Up Sunday morn, made breakfast. Opened presents. She was very pleased. Threat of rain. We were going to a memorial day outing to a the next larger city about 70 miles away. She started to act like a spoiled child blaming everyone if she was going to miss this outing. It would be a first for to see fireworks on her birthaday.
Finally I said, lets go. In 70 miles we could be in and out of rain. We will go anyway and see what happens. Got there in time for a deluge which lasted about 15 minutes. Cleared up. She was happy. Spent afternoon walking and taking pics with her new present (a camera). Ate dinner, listened to music, watched fireworks. Drove home in downpour. But she was very happy. Amazing!!
Monday morn it starts with the "we've done this before", "how come we are always repeating history".
We have never been to this place in this city in our lives. But one of her "symptoms" is this dejavu syndrome. She insists everything keeps repeating over and over. Everyplace we go, everything we do, movies and shows we have seen, she insists we are seeing over again. Why are "we" trying to fool her and trick her with these repeats?
So I ask, did you have a good time yesterday? Yes, she says. So what if we did it before if it was fun. We will probably do it again. She usually screams at me for not agreeing with her about past history she makes up. This time I tried to agree up front to shorten the battle.
The rest of Mon went fine. This is now Tues and I am 250 miles away at work waiting for the nightly screaming contest by phone.
Sorry for the extensive detail. I guess I am just reviewing it in my own mind......
I have found it extremely helpful to keep a "journal" here, so feel free to just record daily events. Last year when I went through the same thing I posted most major events, and after a year went by and it was all happening again it took my own words to get me to see how my behavior is so important in the whole process. I have been neglectful in my posting as of late, so as soon as I find the right subject to post to-- LOOK OUT! It will be a whopper. I am going through something new recently, looking for a place to move into with my husband, and for once in our lives actually reallyfor real taking the reigns. Terrifying. Easier for me to be "in control" without him. Will post a little later when I have time, or tomorrow for sure. I will need plenty of feedback, so all of you-- please don't let me down!
knew good news wouldn't last too long. Our "normal" nightly call between motel
and home went ok at first. She called me. She said she couldn't hear
me too well, to please call
her back. It's hard talking on the cell so I used my ATT calling card. The
conversation continued for another 30 minutes and ended amicably with sweet talk
A few minutes later the motel room phone rings. It's her. What are doing in Atlanta she asks. I am in Chicago dear. Why would you think I was in Atlanta? She says, I dialed *69 (caller ID) and it came up with an Atlanta area code.
I assured her I was in Chicago where I've worked for over 4 years and am staying in the same motel for 2 years. I said, lets try again. I will call you, you answer, hang up, and check the *69 again. We did and this time it came up with an area code from Denver.
So, I said, it is where the calling card 800 number routes the call. Obviously I can't be in 3 places. Two of them must be wrong. She went on for 10 more minutes about how I have been lying to her all along about where I spend my week, where I work, etc. Gee, I must also have another house and wife somewhere (I wish).
I told her I would try to call my cell phone from the motel phone with the calling card, and see what happens. Sure enough, the cell phone displayed a call from a strange area code. I called and told her. She didn't believe me. I told her to try it from the house phone to her cell. She did, called me back and seemed a little more satisfied that I wasn't lying, but still not sure.
Two more hours went by along with my nights sleep. Finally I said I am going to sleep and hung up.
At work an email from her with explanation from ATT website about the calling cards and how calls are routed. Caller ID will not show the real source of a call.
Fine, but now also a phone call message from her telling me to rent an apartment in Chic for us to live together. Also she wants her car back that I have been driving, and a lot of other "demands" about how its going to be. Should I be letting the crazy people run the asylum. Maybe now is the time to make my get away. But the logistics are very difficult because she will probably follow me. I f we do make a temp move to an apartment (we have done this a number of times), I need her physical help. How do I get rid of her when she starts complaining about the problems and people in her new surroundings? I will have nowhere to run. I think I need to talk to a lawyer.
I had a counseling appt. today, and what I learned is relevant to you, bsc. What we have is Co-Dependancy, not meaning that we are dependant on them (how far from the truth would that be?) but that they are overly dependant on us, and we are over-understanding and over-nurturing toward our spouses, avoiding confrontation at all costs, because they are ill and we need to bend over backward to cover their needs and make them comfortable-- when in fact this is exactly the wrong thing to do. I have been advised to be brutally honest about how I feel about him "at" me all the time, even on the meds, calling, coming over, not leaving or making a big deal that he has to leave, pushing me to move in with him, pushing me constantly-- and I'm not ready. Even when he's on the meds. Find a good counselor before you find a good lawyer. You may end up needing both-- heck, we both might! But this is my last chance to try something different unless I want to commit the rest of my life doing for him and never for me. Wish me luck. I'm using my usual confrontation-avoidance and going to a friend for dinner. I will bring this all up with him tomorrow, if I do end up successfully avoiding it tonight, right after I call his Dr. and let her know that he's pushing me too hard and has serious problems dealing with being alone. Wish me luck, this is not going to go well.
thank you - of course you are right. I have heard of co-dependency, but never
got a clear definition. I think enabling also falls in there somewhere. Enabling
her to be a spoiled brat even before the DD got heavy.
I was looking for attorneys in our town on-line. As I went down the list, most names were familiar. About 10 - 15 years ago I explored the mechanics of a divorce, and talked with a few of them. Why didn't I go through with it then? Too lazy, to busy, to used to her abuse, not sure what my parents would say (they are both deceased now), not sure what the kids would do (they are both "adults" now), her parents, etc, etc, etc. I have gone through another 10 - 15 years of misery, and it’s really my fault for doing it. You are right, I do need a counselor. Back then I could afford the split better. Now with retirement approaching it will be difficult. I guess I could work a lot longer.
She does ask me why I am so silent lately. The main reason is, if I said what I felt, WW3 would break out. I definitely would not be safe. I should probably take the chicken approach and do it from a distance.
You are right, I need to NOT save her feelings - she certainly doesn't spare mine. I have often thought that if I treated her the way she treats me and be brutally honest.... She also has a tactic she has been using forever, hangs up the phone, or locks herself in the bathroom, or gets in her car and drives off. Also she never lets me get a word in edgewise, and out shouts me. When I feel myself getting hoarse, I stop. She thinks she won the battle.
Before the DD got so bad she was very sensitive about people's feelings. But now since she feels she is treated so badly and unjust by me and my "cohorts", she feels justified in getting even.
But somehow I feel if I did treat her as I think she deserved, it would be like pulling away the crutches of a cripple. Since she is "sick", it is not her fault. Yet, that doesn't ease my hurt. Walking or running away is the best solution, in theory. How to implement....??
Good luck with avoiding the confrontation tonight. You are lucky that he has a doctor for you to call.
got off the phone with her. She drove to the next bigger city to shop. Lo and
behold she was actually able to buy the shoes she has been looking for for 3
months, without complaining that some one in the store was interfering.
She does tend to cry baby about how she "needs" me, and can't do anything without me. She does try to invoke some guilt that I am busy working somewhere else and not able to help such a needy person. Tells me how terrible her day is going, this broke, that broke, etc. Then the big one, she got a speeding ticket on the highway. I tried not to react one way or the other. This is her third in a year. Since DD her driving has gotten wild and reckless. Now I am also a speeder with all the traveling I do. I am also very careful - especially at night. When i am with her and she is driving I am always screaming at her to slow down. She acts like a woeful child, defying me. Before DD she was pretty careful with her driving and respected the law. Now she flaunts it.
of all, my husband has a horrible driving record. Tons of tickets. Mostly "not
his fault", the cop was a jerk. But enough of that--
The logic to the brutally honest was that even when we (I should say "I", and will from now on... ) try to smooth things over, avoid a tantrum, avoid what thoughts may be provoked by something trivial, a.k.a. walking on eggshells, my gestures and looks give away that I'm thinking something other than what my actions are trying to say... like, for example, I plan to take the day and deep clean the house. It needs it, and in trying to take care of everything myself plus a new job, it's been neglected. And it's not even mine. So he pops in, wants to go for a drive or just spend the day together, and rather than actually confront and say, I have responsibilities! Things to get done on my day off! I know there will be hell to pay if I "deny" him his time or, he will be sure to think I don't love him or whatever-- I reluctantly look at the mess as I pick up my purse and walk out the door. What soon follows is slight attitude-- I'm a little pissed because I looked forward to getting ahead of my mess, a monkey off my back so to speak, and be able to relax a little in what is not even my own home. So the eyes roll, the face twitches, I'm not easily engaged in conversation. Right there is a DDs worst nightmare, from what I've come to understand-- they have actions that don't fit what's coming out of your mouth. To them, lies, betrayal. To us, confrontation avoidance. Smoothing over. Eggshells.
I understood as soon as it came out of my counselors mouth what I had been doing. No wonder he is so confused. And of course he cannot understand that I only tried to do what I thought best with what little knowledge I had about this whole disorder-- I don't "blame" myself for doing it-- I truly never meant to deceive him, just to head the argument off at the pass-- I never lied, just tried to make him feel good about himself, and it really all just doesn't work. So I got honest.
Avoid confrontation tonight? You were bright, bsc, to know that there is really no such thing.
He went twice as far out as I thought he would, reaction-wise. And I buckled on the phone on his commute home, meaning that I didn't even do this in person. Confrontation Avoidance Queen Me. It started out ok, I tried to avoid it, hoping to wait until we were together, but he started bringing up things and I just started being honest, and man, did he go on and on and ON... within minutes he was to see our Priest and a lawyer and he was going to give me the divorce he "knows" I want and am to afraid to ask for.
That's what you get for trying to help them all these years-- when you don't tell them what you really think, only what you think you're supposed to tell them to help them through this, because "in sickness and in health", Heaven forbid you would upset them (since that seems to be their state most of the day... ) and in the end it all boils down to him "knowing" I want a divorce because of, ironically, the "vibe" I've been giving off. A divorce I don't want at all.
But I feel great. I told him how I felt about the pressure, about the crowding, about how I don't think we're ready to live together yet, and yes, I know I said I was but then he got a week off (bad weather) and he didn't leave me one minute alone, calling before the alarm even went off in the morning and staying later than the kids' bedtime, and all the while me not saying anything because I didn't want to hurt his feelings, set him off... I do feel so much better, and I'm hoping this all works out for the better-- I love being married to him when he is his own individual self, not a super-dependant, dependant, dependant. I have come to understand that only a little bit of that is the disorder, the rest is behavior, and like my own behavior in this co-dependency thing, the kinks can be worked out.
I told you all this would come out in one big explosion!
let it all hang out.
The comments about them reading facial expressions and gestures seem to be very true. Many times my wife will look at me and ask what is wrong. Did she do or say something wrong? Why am I upset?
Now many times I am not even thinking bad thoughts, nor am I angry about anything. I usually reply that the only thing bothering me is her asking me these silly questions. By the time I get to that point, I am mad, and it probably shows.
As with your experience, it is difficult for me to hide feelings behind a stupid smile. I even get accused of laughing at her if my smile seems too genuine. Can't win for losing. She even says she can detect a smile in voice on the phone.
Sometimes it is uncanny - I think she is reading my mind. Of course I deny everything she thinks I am thinking. I guess that is lying to her. Even when she says, perhaps we should split up, if we are not going to live together no matter where my job takes me. I always deny that I want to split, but am always thinking the opposite - my posts here are testimony to that. So when she says I am lying, I guess i am. She does use the expression "mixed signals".
So that experience you have had confusing your husband, is similar to mine. On the few occasions I was brutally honest about her being mentally ill and needs to see someone, I usually got a hangup. She usually turns it around insisting I am the one with the problem. I also notice she assigns most of her own symptoms or characteristics to other people, like me, either daughter, her parents, etc. Everyone else seems to be acting strangely, especially around her.
I think push is coming to shove. It is all I can do to put up with the longer 3 and 4 day weekends. If I rent a place where I work, and she moves in with me full time, I am going to be the crazy person.
The codependency you mentioned is probably true in both directions. It must be a characteristic that I have, that I gravitate to women who will be overly dependent on me. Though i complain about it, it seems to be one of my unadmitted requirements. My first wife was older than me, but one of the attractions seemed to be, she needed me. In between wives, there was a girl friend who was very strong. My life probably would have been better with her, certainly financially. But I rejected her in favor of my present wife who was very young, naive, moldable, and definitely needed me. What you sow, you shall reap, applies here. I must be my own worst enemy.
think sometimes we are our
own worst enemies, because the actions we take are not in
our own best interest. We chalk it up to the fact that "they are sick" and "need
our help", and what you find is that we are really trying to heal them when they aren't able or simply
won't heal themselves, us just
trying to have some control
in a situation that we have absolutely
no control in-- oh, and by the way, that situation rules
our lives. SO, I guess if you
look at it that way, our eggshell-walking is really doing no one any good.
And thanks for talking, bsc. You have helped me a lot.
Where are you, Alex, Faithful, happymom, Mic, Hab... and reggie? I guess it's just you and me for now, bsc...
P.S. LEGAL DISCLAIMER -- the previous look on the emoticon's face is neither a smirk or an eye-roll, it simply means we here at this forum understand what each other is going through. Side effects may include a small chuckle, which cannot be misconstrued by any one as sarcastic or all-knowing. Those which do not find humor in this disclaimer will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
Thanks for this great exchange. I found it really helpful as well.
I think everyone here shares the co-dependency character trait. I know I do.
I am happy with my NAMI group because they stress "Tough Love." The meetings focus on how NOT to be co-dependant and it's no easy task!
Sisterfriend, I am really glad to hear you are taking this slow and not getting pushed or pulled into a situation you may not want to be in right now! The counselling sounds like it's paying off. Take this one day at a time, one step at a time. It's your life and you should at least be in control of that!
BSC, Keeping a journal is a must. You'll never believe or remember the things you went through from... say... last year... unless you start writing them down now. You might want to think about counselling as well, to better understand how the dynamics of your relationship are perpetuated by your actions too. I should talk, I've been co-dependent for 17 years!
Best of luck
I thought that confronting him with my needs was hard, I knew how he would react. But last night and today I am all knotted up inside-- I didn't think to talk to my counselor about what do I do with this uncomfortable feeling-- do I call, do I not, what do I say, etc. The phone has been silent for the first time in weeks. I was feeling sorry for him last night and I thought about calling, but then I thought, do I really want to talk to him or am I calling for his wellbeing? I believe this is the co-depenancy rattling around in my brain, and I fought it and did not call. I have also put off calling his dr. but I absolutely have to by the time the kids get home from school today or I'll find that it's days and days and still no call to her-- why can't we just have a week long vacation from all of this? Just a little break with no worries and no responsibilities. Hakuna Matata.
Breaking the co=dependence means disengaging sometimes, and yes even being a hard-ass! I have more trouble with the latter.
Calling his doctor, I think is different. You are concerned for his well-being by doing so, but you're not adding to codependence.
Just think, summer vacation is really right around the corner... a couple of weeks away, really.
And I love Hakuna Matata, though I'm not crazy about eating bugs (even if they are cicadas in cream sauce) like Timon and Pumba!
Hang in there!
language are you guys speaking? Haven't seen any cicadas yet. I must be hanging around
too far north.
Very funny comments regarding the emoticon faces, sisterfriend. I chuckled before I was supposed to. A DD might take it as an insult.
This thread has really got me thinking. This co-dependancy is really a hard "habit" to break. Our character and personality are wrapped up in it. It is who we are, and how we interact with most people, not just our spouses. It may also be an inherited trait. I think my father was a lot like I turned out. My mother pushed him around and was often terrible to him. Even after she had a stroke he took care of her personally on a daily basis. He had the money to hire help but insisted he had to do it himself. He had a heart condition but but still fulfilled his "obligations". He died 2 months after she. I felt bad for him never getting free long enough to enjoy his own life. I hope I don't follow in his footsteps.
Sisterfriend - being torn on whether or not to call - communicating and being concerned is also a habit impossible to break. Of course, it is also a part of love. I don't think any of us have stopped loving our spouses. I wish there was a switch...
This 2 day weekend home with her should prove interesting. I will see if she is really going to put her foot down about "her" car, and about coming back to Chicago with me to look for an apartment.
have to laugh, bsc... you can tell you don't have little kids around anymore--
all that mumbo-jumbo was from "The Lion King", the Disney movie. Hakuna Matata
is a "worry free" way of life. Something I am sure none of us will ever have!!
And co-dependancy is a learned behavior-- my mom did it, too. I am just trying to repair as much damage as I can before my kids are grown and in relationships. Hopefully I'll be a quick learner and break the cycle!
Well I am back at work after a 2 day weekend home with my wife. Surprise - It
was one of the most normal few days I 've spent with her in a long time.
I of course am always expecting the worst. She even commented this morning on my way out the door that it was good, we had some fun, got some work done together, and little to no fighting.
I don't know if she was trying super hard or what. There were a few minor references to DD things such as, we've done this before, did we do this last year at this time. She was whispering under breath about how is she ever going to get back to herself if I don't tell her the truth, etc. But she didn't make a big deal about it and no screaming.
So she is not cured, but I could take this different wife easily. But I know it is only temporary. I'll see how tonights phone call goes.
She did say that next week, after the cats are better (they were both neutered), she is going to come with me to search for an apartment.
It would be difficult to convince myself to split if she remained this "good". Must be a trick - now I'm getting paranoid. We'll see....
Actually, your comment about your getting paranoid was very interesting to me. I have been noticing similar paranoia in my husband. For example, I was talking to him on the phone about the mechanic's view of a used car we were intending to buy for our daughter. He was talking to his father in the background. Things got quiet on the phone and I asked him "Are you talking with your dad?" He then said to his father, "She doesn't believe me, she wants to talk to you." After I talked to his father, my husband got back on the line. I said, "All I said was "Are you talking with your dad? I didn't ask to talk to him." He said that is not what it sounded like to him. I said "Yes, I know." This type of thing seems to be happening fairly regularly.
Does anyone else notice they get paranoid around the delusional spouse?
glad you dropped in. To answer your
question, yes. The paranoid term was not to be taken too seriously, but,
I do not trust my wife. I am always on guard.
As she watches me very closely (it seems) to wait for me to slip up in the use of a word or a facial expression. I watch her very closely to see how she is reacting to me. She parses my words to try and catch me in a "lie". She attributes ridiculous interpretations and meanings to words and phrases, always to twist the truth.
In describing this past weekend as being good, I am wary that no good deed goes unpunished. Remember, she is not on meds as you have been, and I cannot talk freely with her about her DD.
As to your experience with your husband, I think he is also wary and expecting the worst. It may take a while for him to break that habit in his thinking about you.
I know I would finally get comfortable with my wife if I knew she was on meds.
Sorry, but that's exactly what happens. It's not paranoia, but it's a reaction to what has happened so many times in the past/present that you automatically provide logic to solve the question your spouse's brain is mulling over, even if some of the time they are not actually questioning anything... purely habit on our part, and mostly accompanied by frustration and anger. I am so glad you brought this up, because this is the #1 reason I went into counselling-- I was on auto-pilot with the explainations and proof all the time. And believe me, you get to the point that it's like brushing your teeth-- your DD says "this", and you are ready with the truth like "that". You asked a question, and your husband passed the phone. You asked, maybe not that, but your husband answered. He thought you were wondering who he was talking to/what their response was. The easiest way to prove the truth is to pass the phone. I wish it weren't that way, but that's auto-pilot. I am working on it every day. It is not easy. I hope I've helped you a little?!
Thanks for your responses. I think I understand a little more now. I wonder how long this will go on?
I'm sure one behavior feeds another. That is the main reason I am just being so incredibly honest that there can be no confusion on his part as to what my feelings are. So far, so good. Of course he feels terrible, but maybe he can really grasp that he is ill and does need treatment long-term.
I wouldn't ever count on him grasping anything about the nature of his illness let alone getting consistent help with it. Count on the opposite and be pleasantly surprised if he does. You'll be living with a lot less false hope. I honestly feel their delusions lead us into our own delusions of being able to change them with one tactic or another. I for one have given up on that notion and am learning to live side by side with his reality in the most peaceful way I can.
.... how do we all live with this? I relate to it all - being paranoid - were
his comments about a chair being moved or a cigarette in the trash really just a
comment, or an accusation that my lover came in and moved furniture and smoked a
cigarette? I did, in the end, get very hold-nothing-back honest "you are sick,
you need medical help, if you don't get it I will leave." And I left. Thus,
proving to him that I had wanted the divorce he thought I wanted all along, when
I never did. If I did, I would have left him decades ago.
It's better being away, really, really better. I feel in control of my life for the first time. With him, I was always reacting to him - his paranoia, his delusions, his dependancy, set the tone of our lives. We only get one life. Mine might be starting at 50, but at least I'll have one that is mine, and not a continual reaction to someone else's.
It's good to hear you are doing so well on your own. That you are finding peace of mind at last. For many women, life begins at fifty, usually because all the kids are grown. So enjoy. Please keep coming here and keeping us up to date on how things are going.
You must feel like a big burden has been removed and a black cloud has turned to white.
feel in control of my life for the first time. With him, I was always reacting
to him - his paranoia, his delusions, his dependancy, set the tone of our lives.
We only get one life. Mine might be starting at 50, but at least I'll have one
that is mine, and not a continual reaction to someone else's."[/quote]
Well put, Faithful. That is how I would like to have said it, succinctly.
Yes - we are reacting to our spouses, rather then living our lives with them. Always on guard and wary so as to not over or under react. Ironically, my wife is always saying that I (or "they") am doing or saying something to evoke a specific response or reaction from her, especially to arouse her anger on purpose.
And the "life is short" reference is, of course, the truth. I have to start even older than 50. I should be even more motivated to go, since I have even less time to enjoy what is left.
She just passed her 48th birthday and I hear similar things from her. She does allude to leaving me, though she insists she loves me and intended to spend our days in rocking chairs on the front porch. I think she is getting concerned about having married someone so much older. There are still a lot of things she wants to do, but soon there will be little money to do them. Maybe reality and panic are affecting her. She does say that maybe one of the reasons she is being "tested by them" is to get her ready to be alone.
Again this past weekend went pretty well. She almost seemed normal. I just know all hell will break loose soon, but I am not going to do anything to provoke it.
Still, one of her biggest gripes is the fact that we spend little time together because of my job being out of town. She has to take care of the house, etc. while I am having "fun" in the big city. I work 10 - 12 hours a day and go back to the motel to eat the food she prepared for me, and watch a little TV, and go to sleep. Great fun! She has always thought I am having an affair. Never have since I have been with her.
DD aside, since most of you are married women, what is your opinion? I have been on the road for about 10 years. In each job I rented an apartment to live in. She usually joined me for about half to two thirds of the time. Moving was rarely an option since most were temp contract jobs. One was permanent and we considered actually moving to that city, but it was not quite affordable. Being pretty close to retirement, post-retirement affordability was on my mind. In the present job (4.5 years), I did not rent an apartment, but lived in a motel. Except for 1 year we did rent a house. It was during that time the DD started in earnest, so we went back home, and I went back to the motel. She has spent time with me at the motel but hates it, so she hasn't been away with me for about 8 months.
As wives, look at it from my wifes viewpoint (forget the DD for a moment). Am I being unfair? She says most women would tell me to go to hell. What's the use of being married, she asks, if you are with your spouse only 3 nights a week, except for holidays and vacation? Inspite of all the phone calls, she says she needs face to face contact. She may be right. What do you think?
Incidently, if I could get a job doing what I do within an hour and a half drive of home, I would jump on it.
Nobody took the bait, I see. None of you ladies would give me your opinion about
the above question. OK - I guess I shouldn't have asked since it was not
directly a DD issue.
On to DD things. My last post above stated how nice things were (relatively) for 2 weekends in a row. This past weekend was pretty bad. I knew things would deteriorate soon. They have been bad since Sat morning, right thru to now as I am writing this.
Frustration over not being able to get me a father’s day present started last weekend. I keep telling her not to worry about it, it doesn't matter, we can't afford it, etc. She has pulled all the stores into the conspiracy. Those that don't have what she has in mind to buy. She insists that as soon as they see her coming, they pull merchandise off the shelf so she can't buy it.
Most of the day Sat, screaming about it, but we did get in a nice outdoor jazz festival. Sunday spoiled by the same thing. Went out to eat with pregnant daughter. Wife still insisting she is not pregnant - just a trick.
Monday and Tuesday screaming and phone hangups. Questions with no answers, etc etc etc.
I actually "took the bait" and posted but there must have been a glitch, because it's obviously not here! My advice was to suggest that you would be willing to give it a try only if she would agree to treatment. I know this would not go over well, but like my counselor says, smaller/closer quarters will only exascerbate the situation. And as my husband's counselor says, untreated it only gets worse. SO, I advise that, but I know I might as well tell you to rent a rocket for the two of you and orbit the Earth for a year! But really, if you think about it, you're only putting off this conversation. It will eventually have to happen as she gets worse or until you're too fed up and leave, so maybe this would be a good time and good vehicle to discuss it again. ?? Anyone else have an opinion for bsc?
Sorry I've been scarce lately-- filling in for a co-worker has me there everyday, overtime. Ugh.
you Sisterfriend - you indeed are a sister friend. I thought I scared everyone
Yes - an orbital rocket. At least that would be fun with or without her. A year would be too long. If we can't get along for 2 and a half days, being together longer will definitely be a trial.
She accuses me of wanting to be alone in the motel room. I would never tell her, but she is absolutely right. I get a reprieve. I would hate to give that up until she is normal. During her down time, we do have fun, and I think how great things would be if she were normal. Then being around her would be doable.
During our phone call last night, I did allude (bravely) to her seeing a doctor and getting on some meds. I pretended not to know too much about it, so she shouldn't look to me for advice - see the doctor. But she calls them all fakes and says she couldn't trust anyone. Then, of course, highly insulted - click. And several recalls later - click, click, and click again. I turned off my cell phoneand did not answer my desk phone. By the last call of the night 2a.m. we were made up.
Sorry about not responding. If this were a normal situation I would be asking a couple questions. First, I would wonder why she was not working if she was concerned about money. In addition to bringing in money she would not have all day to worry about what you were doing. Secondly, if my husband was going to be working and extended amount of time out of town and I did not have any obligations at my current location I would probably want to look into getting an apartment for us to be together. If it was a contract that I new was short term I would stay put, but if it was for many years I would probably want to go if possible. As far as saying to to hell, I think I would probably want to sit down first and try to make a plan. Perhaps, researching the job market and trying to find the best location for a permanent job. Remember, I am just guessing what I would do. As we all know you never know until it happens to you.
Feel free to post a question even if it is not directly related to DD. Everything winds up being intertwined so if any one can help out I am sure they will.
Sorry to hear that things have not been going so well. Hope this has been a better weekend.
That is an interesting thought... if she were not to think that you were trying to "keep her out of your way", if she were to get a job she would a) have a little less time to "think" (or let thoughts unravel into that giant spiderweb of conspiracy we all know so well) and she would also be making a case for you, as obviously her behavior would be noticeable to others. Other witnesses are absolutely invaluable in getting them help. Is there any way at all she would even get a part time job? Even if it's just at a garden center, or library or something?
think her rational self feels guilty about not contributing. She alludes to it
in her delusional self. She will say - I know "all of you" want me to get a job,
but it is up to me - why are you all trying to run my life - I can do what I
want - besides I already have a job cleaning and fixing up the house - and my
She has, over the past year and a half, taken the house apart, a room at a time. Unfortunately she has not put them all back together. I have little time on the weekends to help too much. She complains about that. Also her ebay auctions do consume time. They have not been good lately and little money coming in. This then discourages her.
As far as an actual out of house job... she finds many reasons not to even try to get one. She has no references, the hours (in retail stores will interfere with our weekend life, since that is the time I would be home, her legs hurt, she can't be on her feet, and mainly since "this" happened to her she is too confused to deal with things, she won't be able to perform or relate to people.
So many things have gone wrong lately, and she, of course, blames them on "me and my friends". Even when I point out that I would not do anything to my own detriment, she says I am doing because I will get something out of it, like money, and where is her share. Since "we all" are having her perform like a trained seal for our amusement, she should get paid for it, and that perhaps that is her real job. She just hasn't got paid yet.
In the past 10 years I had 4 jobs in places other then our town. In the first 3 we did rent an apartment to live together most of the time. This time I found it difficult to rent one because of out poor credit history. There was an almost 2 year gap between job 3 and 4. Spent savings and many debts accumulated while out of work.
So I stayed in motel for first year and a half. Did rent a house from a couple who didn't require credit check for a year. DD set in at that time so had to move out. Back to the motel until now.
Had very interesting conversation with her Tuesday. More later....
home Monday and Tuesday by telecommuting by computer. She quite often doen't let
me get my work done. She thinks I am home for her benefit and to do the
household chores or listen to her rant.
Later Tuesday she sat down and described in much detail about what her brain perceives. She describes how it is on overdrive, and how dozens of thoughts vie for her attention at the same time. Voices are competing to be heard and direct her every thought and move. That is why she can't make decisions because all this confuses her.
She described how she parses words a syllable or letter at a time. She gets very manic and jokes, laughs, and screams at the hilarity of the humor she has created. Sometimes she is very funny and witty, other times silly and makes no sense. She says she wants to stop but something in her head pushes her on.
I thought this may be a good opportunity for my pitch about the doctor and meds, etc. She states again quite plainly she will not go to a quack. Look what the others have done to her. End of conversation.
I thought with her unusual candor, we were getting someplace, since she was able to accurately define what was bothering her. She even used the word delusion.
But 5 minutes later she is back to the usual - why did I do this to her - why won't I explain, etc.
Sisterfriend - I just got off the phone with a company from Seattle area. The may be interested in hiring me. My decision to fly out (at their expense) for a personal interview. Wow - what a change that would be. I wonder if my wife could handle it. We would be together. Or maybe it's my runaway opportunity.
Tell me about that area.
I would appreciate any opinions on how to handle a situation. We are planning a family get-together and I just spoke with my wife's aunt. She is seemingly well functioning, but is very likely suffering from DD- persecutory type. Bird feathers in her yard are evidence that people are entering her home... Any ideas on how to approach our time with her. I really appreciate the ideas about discussing feelings rather than the delusion.
Welcome to the forum.
I hope I'm not to late for your family gathering!
You have given few details in your post but generally most professionals think it's best not to confront your Aunt's delusions. Perhaps the best strategy is to listen politely but not to give undue credence to the "facts."
Simply understand that what she thinks is "true" is true to her and she's probably feeling quite fearful. If you can, explore these feelings with her, empathize, and even suggest that she seeks help dealing with her anxiety.
I know this is not much help!
Best of luck
Hang in there
been a terrible week and a half for me. So many details to tell that this post
would put most of you to sleep.
Started out on 7/1, my wifes car finally quit. She had to have it towed home. You can imagine the mood that put her in. You all know what a little stress does to DDs. Friday I was still at work in the big city. Kept getting calls all day to help her rent a car. I said I would be home Friday night, you don't need a car right now. She insisted everyone in town was against her renting a car, and was blocking her efforts. The real reason was, we don't have a real credit card, only the debit/credit card. I do have a company travel card to use (not to charge against), but I needed to be there in person for the transaction to take place. (Part of the plot against her.)
I wanted to work on the car a little on Sat morn. But she wanted to rent the car anyway to go on vacation. So we did. Rented a car, packed up and headed east to visit her parents, and an ocean resort town.
I am skipping the trip which was terrible. She confiscated the keys from me, and drove like a maniac. Near Wash DC I stupidly through in an alternative to "her" plans. Why not see the 4th fireworks on the mall in DC. She got excited about that thought but got very confused because of the conflict to visit her parents earlier. Many more skipped details. The whole thing was a fiasco, the car got towed from illegal parking, etc etc.
At her parents, who were very happy to see us, she acted out a bit of her DD but I don't think her parents noticed until she told her mother she wasn't too excited over our coming grandchild. She did get some funny looks.
Next morning she got up and threw the suitcases in the car and announced, we are leaving now. Her mother had just made breakfast and was just settling in for a visit.
She went out the door. I hung behind for a moment to apologise to her parents with tears in their eyes. They asked what they did wrong. I said I will call them soon and explain the whole thing. I still haven't yet but I should.
Downtown to explore another east coast city. Then off to the beach. Stayed for 3 horrible days. Had great fun in the water, eating great seafood, walking on boardwalk, etc. The horrible part was her reactions to everything and everybody. She was disappointed that her "demons" followed her 700 miles from home and were still taunting her, and making her miserable. And of course the usual - it's my fault since I let them do this to her brain. She threatened divorce about a half dozen times, and suicide another few times. She thought running into the ocean at night would be a good way to go.
We drove all the way back in one shot. Screaming and shouting all the way because of all the things I supposedly did to spoil her good time, and bring all my "friends" with me. This is a terrible way to live.
It's Tuesday. I'm at work, getting ready to drive 5 hours home to celebrate our 24th anniversary tomorrow. I know it will be a terrible day since everything I do or say will not be right for her. Last year I did one of my runaways, but came back a few hours later. I wonder if history will repeat. The cars are not too reliable to get away. I have to return the rental car soon.
Got to go - it's starting to rain.....
Greetings. Checking in. As to bsc being gone a lot, my husband's job put him on the road a lot and I think it kept us married an extra 10 years - when he was home we let a lot slide to get along & raise the kids - it wasn't until he got a "regular" job that his illness became really apparent (and he became intolerable to live with). Then he went through several jobs (5 in 3 years) and became increasingly dependant on my salary, and I'm probably going to lose half the money I saved over the years to him in the divorce just because of him refusing to keep jobs or save any money himself. I feel very pissed about that, but try to keep it in prospective that it's a small price to pay for getting a life. He's been dating like mad from personal ads, has now settled on a "girlfriend" and is having a party this weekend to introduce her to the family - and I've only been out of the house less than 4 months. Lord help the poor woman. Lots of other probems between him and our 3 grown kids - only one of them is going to his party. But I'm closer to the kids than ever, grateful to have them in my life, sorry they have to put up with their father, but, not my problem. Last time my son was reciting his recent run in with his dad, I actually broke into a dance, "I'm outa there, yeah, yeah, yeah!!!" Hope the glee never wears off - if it does, I'll re-read my journal to remind me of what I've left behind. I have a birthday in a few days - am feeling reborn.
(My birthday is Sunday!)
I'm glad to hear you are getting your life back even if it means you're half as rich as you once were!
To BSC: What a nightmare for you!
Get some help for yourself now; you can't go on like this without losing your own mind! Really, I'm serious. You are just perpetuating this terrible situation. It sounds like you need to end it and get out, but you are going to need help doing it!
FYI: 2 weeks without a cigarette for me!
Take care, and good luck.
my birthday is Sunday also! Looks like we are both in a new beginings phase of
our lives. Many congrats on two weeks without cigs - I'm sure your kids will
And bsc, think of cigarettes - an addiction to something that is clearly very harmful to you. It's very difficult to quit, you lose a best friend in a way, but after the adjustment you feel so much better.
I'm rooting for both of you.
In your post on the page before this one, you mentioned that your wife hears voices in her head telling her what to do. I'm no diagnostician, but I do believe that puts her in the realm of schizophrenia and not delusional disorder. . . I could be wrong, but you may have a different disorder to cope with then you are thinking. Her talk of suicide can be the ticket to the hospital, you know. You can use it to call the 911 and get her in treatment. Just a thought...
you all for your comments.
Faithful - besides the addiction to my crazy wife, I also smoke. Only average about 5 - 6 a day. Maybe If I quit my wife, smoking is next.
Hab - yes there are many symptoms that she has that are schizophrenic like. That usually starts at a much younger age. One symptom she has I haven't talked too much about is a mania. Like manic, but not too depressed. She gets on a high, laughing, talking incessantly, cracking jokes, appears to be having a great time at a party of two (her and I). She says she does that alone in her car too, so a party of one. That is not schizophrenic.
As I have said in the past, she has many disorders, almost the whole DSM4 manual. At one time I had placed her as borderline PD. So far DD seems to be the closest, because that is what she always goes back to. That me, and the rest of the world, are in on this secret of why her brain was altered one night (the main delusion). This alteration, according to her, causes all these things to happen to her, the mania, deja vu syndrome, forgetfulness (actually she forgets little, the problem is remembering what never happened), her inability to write and express herself as she used to. That "we" caused her to lose weight - good. Caused her to stop biting her fingernails - good. She blames "us" for trying to change her against her will. A lot of these changes that she is doing are for the best, of course. Is the child in her still wanting to rebel?
It is hard to classify precisely, but reading this DD forum, most of her symptoms are similar to all of your loved ones.
Alex - yes I should go. I know it. I still have time to recover some of my life. The anniversary went surprisingly well - almost. On the way home from the big city Tues night, I had stopped to buy her a bracelet I thought she might like. Bought some wrappings and a couple of cards.
We always exchange one card the night before an event. Did that. OK - so far. Next morning slept in. Got up and asked what she wanted to do besides movie and dinner (usually). She said horseback riding. I was very surprised, but said OK.
Last time for me about 30 years ago. She, when she was a teen. I found a place about hour drive from the house. We went, followed instructions, had a good time. She was exstatic(sp). Beautiful hilly countryside, nice gentle horses. Great. Drove toward home, her recounting every minute of it and how we have to do it again soon. Maybe take riding lessons.
A while later eating in restaurant, she asks, did I say the right thing to your friends. Do you get more points or money. I ask, as usual, what friends? She says, don't deny you took me thre for the effect to see my reaction - you're always putting me on display for other people to see how I would react to riding. I ask, did you have fun as you said? Yes, she says, but that isn't the point. You are always doing things to me to see how I would react. I say, it was your suggestion to go riding, I never would have thought of it. But, she says, you put the idea in my head. How could I do that? You or your friends talk to me in my head.
Dinner over. Home to give the bracelet. I know she doesn't have anything for me so I am a little hesitant - but I bought it - so I will give it to her. She realizing I am about to give her something, goes into the other room and quickly wraps some colgne she gave me along time ago I never got to using.
Exchange gifts and second set of cards (our tradition). All is well - NO. She says, how could you give me back the bracelet that I gave J (oldest daughter) a few years ago. I said I just bought it last night. Here is the receipt to prove it. She says receipts can be created and altered. This is exactly the same bracelet I gave J, so I am not accepting your gift. You lied again. Fine, I said, I 'll take it back. No, she said. I'll put it in my jewelry box but I won't wear it.
And how come the last 2 anniversaries in a row you bought me nothing but flowers (is that bad). You are up to something for effect. I said, I am making up for the last 2 years.
I was working at home Thurs and Fri. All was calm. Got along fine. Did some work on the upstairs bathroom remodeling project. Same Sat and Sun. Four fairly good days in a row.
That, perhaps, is why I am still with her. I guess I am living for the few good days, knowing full well there will be hell to pay for each one. Am I a glutton for punishment, or what.
Again, Alex, you are so right. I must be losing my mind.
Faithful, I read your words of freedom found, jealously.
It's no crime to still care about your wife and love her-- though getting her help would be the best (and hardest) expression of your love.
You are, like many of the rest of us, (expecially myself) an enabler and co-dependent. Some day you will recognize that and will be able to do the most difficult thing!
Well, things have not been getting any better. But then who would have expected
Last week was good and bad. She came to the big city with me for a few days (not been here for some time), with the intention of driving directly to the birthday present rock concert, and then back home. I showed her how to get to several tourist attractions by herself while I was at work. Amazingly worked out OK. She was so happy she could do it without my further help, and not get lost. Had some wonderful romantic dinners out, and on the pier. Boat ride, walks, etc. She was very happy, which made me happy and off the hook.
She was looking forward to the Wed nite concert. Wed afternoon drove to the concert (about 3 hours - another big city). She kept talking about dreams she has been having where I got into a fight with her and left her there. I was thinking to myself she will probably make sure this a self-fulfilling prophecy. I was then on guard, which changes my attitude.
At the concert she was both exstatic (sp) and frightened of the people surrounding us. She was surprised that the audience consisted more of my peers then hers. So was I.
Rude people shouting, laughing, standing instead of sitting in very expensive seats, and spilling beer on our clothes really upset her.
But she loved the music and appeared to have a good time.
Almost 3 hour drive home including getting out of the parking lot traffic, gave us too much time to disuss the concert and her wrong perception (as usual) that we've done this before. By the time we got home we were in a big fight about why I am lying to her about this, etc etc.
Shew threw my stuff out the door 3 times in next 12 hours. I should have left. Next day was a work at home. My boss called - she hung up on him twice. She was out of control over something that should have united us. But why should I expect any thing else.
Enough of last week. Before the end of past weekend everything healed.
Today she calls me at my desk at work during lunch. Not unusual. As she tells me how awful she feels physically, a boistrous couple of people come laughing by. She hears this and hangs up. Finally 45 minutes later I am able to get thru to her. She insists they were laughing at what she said to me. She insists I am putting her on a speaker phone so everyone can hear her. You all know that is the last thing I would do. Of course, according to her, it is all part of the plot to make a fool of her.
So, nothing new here. Just thought I'd rant.....
I curious why you bother to fight with her still about her delusions. Isn't there a way to be with her and let it all bounce off you without getting angry? Put on your duck feathers and let it roll off your back. Do you enjoy the fight? That could be I suppose.
like to fight - no way. It wears me out and depresses me.
She usually picks the fights by bringing up a topic, usually delusion related. She puts me into a defensive mode like I 'm the person who is lying to her about everything. I try to let it "roll off my back", but she persists in getting answers for which there are none (that she would agree with).
I try not to have to talk her out of her false beliefs. I try to ignore her to keep the peace. She won't let it be. She wants to know who is responsible for her mental problems. I simply say, it's not me or anyone else I know. She insists I am lying.
She says the whole rock concert was a setup to trick her. She insists we were there before and it was identical. When she asks me when it was the first time, I say never. The argument goes on. I try to make up something like maybe 2 years ago. Then she asks for more details or disproves the answer which of course is false. Can't win for losing.
confronting the delusions sounds
like a great idea, but I have
not found it to be practical. If the delusions were only words, ok, but when the
DD takes actions based on delusions, it gets a lot trickier. In trying to settle
my husband's and my financial issues for the divorce, we have discussions, we
agree on a course of action, then he takes actions in complete disregard to our
agreements, then I have to react to that, and yes, it gets me angry. He
continues to see me as the enemy, is certain I am trying to put something over
on him, will not take my word on anything, and denies ever making agreements
with me in the first place. The frustration is driving me nuts.
For example, we agreed not to involved lawyers because I am a paralegal and, as long as we can agree to the terms, I can fill out and file the papers. We agreed to split the filing fees of about $300. I gave him a written agreement that he did not have to respond within the usual 30 days, that he could do so at any time, that I would notify him within 30 days of anything else I would be doing and keep him fully informed, etc., so he would not have to spend another $300 to file a response unless I did something unexpected. He listened to his warehouse friends' advice over mine, filed the response anyway, and now won't pay his half of the original filing fees. There were many other agreements we had made about money that he now denies, he's attributing actions and words to me that have never happened, and this is costing me thousands of dollars - plus countless hours of my time.
Even if I only communicate with him in writing, he "loses" my letters and accuses me of lying anyway, and acts on his persecutory delusions rather than the facts, then blames me for all our troubles.
All with that god-awful grin (he knows the "real" truth).
Yes, I get very angry. There aren't enough duck feathers to keep me dry from all this.
The only good in all this is continued reenforcement of my decision to leave. I found myself actually thanking him for being such a jerk. As tough (and as expensive) as this all is, it will end for me. He will continue to live as though he is the butt being kicked by the world.
It sounds like you have every reason to be angry!
My advice, for what it's worth: Get yourself a good lawyer. It's hard enough to agree on terms with someone who is reasonable and somewhat rational. In your case, this could go on and on for years! Even though a lawyer is expensive to start with, they will end up saving you money (and time) in the long run. Not only that, you will cease to be the enemy; your lawyer will be the new "bad guy."
You are free and your husband will continue to be a jerk, trying to drag you down at every opportunity. A lawyer will be able to end your problems quickly and expensively!
some interesting info this weekend. Being my birthday Sunday, my wife went out
for a while to get me my cake and a gift (big trauma for her). While gone, my
inlaws called to wish me a happy, etc. When I mentioned their daughter wasn't
home they immediately switched topics to the state of her mental
Remember the July fourth visit with them was a disaster. promised them I would call soon and explain. I never did.
They said they realised there was a problem several years ago when we visited them for thanksgiving. Here I thought I didn't want to bother them with it.
There take on it was bipolar. I tried to explain that while she had a lot of those symptoms, there were many more they weren't aware of. And the she doesn't have the depression part to the extent necessary to make that diagnosis.
By the way did anyone see the Jane Pauley interview last Wed. She was diagnosed with bipolar. Many of the manic symptoms my wife has, but Jane didn't talk about conspiracy delusions, or the paranoia to the extent we read about here. Still, another public awareness campaign for menal illness. I wanted my wife to see it. She "claims" she wanted to, and was sorry she missed it. When my wife again described the manic mode, hyperactivity (that these people are putting her through), I said to her, a lot of what you just described, Jane described. She said she wasn't bipolar so didn't see how it applied to her. I said, no you are probably not bipolar, but it would be nice to know why you have these other symtoms. You could go to a doctor and find out what you might have. No, she said, I don't need a doctor, I need you (me) to stop all this BS you are injecting into my head. Usual result!
But I digress. My inlaws mentioned several people in my wifes family who have been diagnosed with bipolar (or some unnamed mental illness). Some back a few generations and one a second couzin of my wifes generation. Possibly some gene connection here.
The main thing is, now it is out in the open with them. When I spent a bit of time explaining what I have been going through with her, I got lots of sympathy and understanding.
My mother-in-law even described a weird conversation with her daughter that took place several years ago about a present that my wife sent her, that never was sent, and why did her mother return it by putting it back in our attic (never happened).
My father-in-law told me about my wife complaining about the landlord in the house we rented taking pictures of her, etc.
So they have known for some time. They just never had the opportunity to discuss it alone with me.
They said they would support me in whatever I decided to do, even if it came down to calling the police, 911, whatever. Even just leaving her. They promised not to discuss our phone call with my wife since that would confirm the conspiracy, untill it came to a full confrontation. They live 500 miles away, so physical support and presence is unlikely. But I do feel better that I have some other shoulder to cry on.
Happy Birthday, belated!
It is good to have a bit of extra family support even if it is 500 miles away.
Someone posted here a short time ago that a person with DD might also have a multiple diagnosis, i.e. multiple disorders. That's an intriguing thought-- as if figuring out one disorder wasn't hard enough!
Hang in there
Glad to hear you have some family involvement - it is probably a relief for them
too. My husband's psychiatrist insisted we not tell our family what was going
on, and I think that was a big mistake. I found the isolation of going this
alone was almost as bad as the DD itself. My husband was, and is still, totally
unaware he is sick (of course) but I knew it, and I needed and wanted support.
Once family and friends knew what was going on, I felt a million times better.
As for the multiple disorders, I'm sure it happens. My husband has the jealousy disorder, but also cycles in and out of hypocondria and general paranioa, and now has become a compulsive spender and is thousands of dollars in debt. Three years ago he was diagnosed with clinical depression, along with psychosis, and I wonder if this compulsive spending is a sign of bi-polar mania. But we'll never know.
it's been a terrible long weekend for me. It started last Wed night. Thurs and
Fri were work at home days, as well as Mon and Tues. So 6 loonng days with her.
Thurs went well. Fri she got sick, supposedly from Thurs nights pizza. She claimed something was in it on purpose to make her sick. She did note that I ate the same one, pieces she selected form me, and I didn't get sick. "They" must have known what would make her sick but not me. She also claimed that the same exact thing happened last year at this time (deja vue).
She stayed in bed most of Fri. I was happy. Gave me a chance to get my work done. Waited on her a little since she couldn't keep anything down. Saturday she is still sick (both ends). Tells me we are supposed to go to a symphony concert about 100 miles away that night. That's right I forgot my birthday present from 3 weeks ago. I mentioned I might want to go. Very nice but she is sick and tickets very expensive. I called the box office. Told me repeat program Sun afternoon. I had tickets held, hoping she would better.
Next morning she says she feels better, and we should go. I tell her when we have to leave (about 2 hours notice) to make it on time and drive 100 miles to another city, park the car etc.
She proceeds to take 2 hours and 45 minutes to decide what too wear, changing clothes, checking the contents of her purse. Like she is purposely running very slow, fits of crying because she can't make a decision, screaming at me and the "people" who did this to her. I told her it was too late, no use wasting the gas to drive there. Drove like a maniac myself (she is good at it). Averaged 80 mph. Got there only 15 minutes late, but had to wait to the end of the first movement to be let in. It was the one I wanted to hear, and see. I was very angry. Long story shorter, good afternoon and evening, dinner out, etc.
Monday she stayed out of way mostly so I could work. Towards evening she was getting bitchy.
Tues started OK because she didn't realise I was going to be home one more day. Went grocery shopping for her in the morning. Credit card declined. Paid cash. Told her about it when I got home. She went ape claiming it was all my fault, etc. The storm blew over. By mid afternoon she claimed eilther I, or someone who broke into the house, stole some money from her purse or from the bottom of a ceramic figure she had on her dressing table. I told her I didn't take, and reminded her that about a month ago she put a lot of cash into the savings account. She acknowledged that was true, but "they" had a key to the house, and were coming in to steal her money, and rearrange everything. "we" were trying to drive her crazy. If there is something wrong with her it's "our"fault. This was all being screamed at the top of her lungs.
She then picked up the ceramic piece she hid the money in, and threw it breaking it and several other things. She was aiming for the company laptop I use when working at home. When I jumped up to protect it, somehow my right index finger got a nasty deep gash from something sharp. While I was contemplating the bleeding, she moved her attack into the bathroom. Threw something there breaking the light fixtures. More glass and liquid soap all over the place. Then banging on the rim of the sink she adored, with something hard. The porcelin crumbled. I was trying to get the computer and accessories onto the case, and out the door into my van for a quick get away. But my finger was bleeding profusely. I went into the kitchen to run cold water on the wound to stop the bleeding. I pressed paper towels on it to at least confine it. She finally saw what was happening and stopped. She took one look at the finger and said you need stitches. I will drive you to the hospital. No, I protested, I'll drive myself, and headed toward the door. She won and drove me. She was screaming all the way about the mistreatment she was getting, and how I probably did that on purpose to get "their" sympathy and make her look bad. She kept weaving in and out, speeding up and then slamming on the brakes. Total maniac.
At the hospital I had to lie a little about what happened. Long story short again - 8 stitches and I know a big bill will come for using the ER. She watched the surgeon intently as he sewed me up. She watched the nurse wrap what felt like a mile of gauze around my finger. When we left I thought she might be a little sorry for what she caused. Nope - right back to the yelling. At least she drove safely. Back home she became more sorry as she had to clean up the mess she made. I offered to help. She said no, with my hurt finger I should just go lay down. I didn't. I was getting things in place for my escape. But I stayed the night. Now 250 miles away from her at work trying to slowly type using only my middle finger on my right hand slows me down.
Just had one of our nightly phone calls. The usual. 3 hangups and I don't call back. When am I going to tell her I am not coming back??
I am so sorry to hear about your terrible week. I don't know how you put up with everything you do. I don't know what else to say. I am feeling a little guilty having such a peaceful life. You need to do what you feel is best for your situation and only you can decide that. Although I can tell you that life after torment and torture is gone is much easier. You are in my thoughts.
Thanks Happymom - it is Fri morn. In about 5 hours I will get in the car and drive the 250 miles home. Why, I don't know. Only planning a 2 day weekend this time. What a way to live. I am happy for your peace of mind. Thanks for the support.
sounds like you certainly have an incident by which you can call police (even
days later, assault is assault) and force your
wife into treatment.
From what I've heard, this is a pretty common way for DD folk to finally get
into the system. Whether that does any good is a reasonable question, but at
least when you finally do leave, you will know you did all you could to try to
bring your wife back
to reality. That was important to me to make my decision to leave - my
husband was in treatmentand
on drugs for 18
months, and I saw for myself that it was just a band aid, there was no
cure for this. When he quit treatment,
it was like ripping the scab off a wound - although the wound wasn't healing, at
least it was covered up somewhat, barely bareable, but without treatment,
I knew I had to get out. It was clear as day, no more waivering, no more
wondering why I stayed.
There is a peaceful, decent life in your future. Those of us on the other side of your hell are testimony to that. You are not alone.
Thanks for your comments Faithful.
I had thought about using the incident to my advantage as you suggested. Had I gotten away to drive myself to the hospital, I probably would have said something to the ER people as to why I was even there, and expalin the her history to them. Maybe they would have intervened on my behalf. In her presence, in the hospital, I just made up a story. It was amazing how many hospital people I came in contact with who asked me how it happened. They may have sensed my wife was weird. The last nurse I came in contact with who wrapped up my finger, said, as we were leaving, take good care of yourself, as she gave my wife a strange look.
Maybe that was a lost opportunity.
She called her parents yesterday. Apparently they gave her a talking to. After, she called me to complain that her parents were acting weird. Why is everyone turning against her? She thinks they ought to go see somebody because of the crazy things they accuse her of. Or maybe they are just older and their minds are going. Maybe it's not their fault.
Another 4 day weekend at home coming up. Have a cash flow problem right now and can't afford to stay in motel. Too bad it's getting cold in the midwest. I could sleep in my van. I just know the right time is coming...
It is not easy to give up on someone you love and care for. It is not easy to break the habit of being an enabler and co-dependent!
Your time will come, you will recognize it and you will be ready to save yourself!
Best of luck,
bsc - keep us posted. We're all thinking of you. I learned yesterday that my borderline high blood pressure of the last two years has returned to normal - more validation that leaving my husbandwas something I had to do - staying literally could have killed me. Too bad you aren't out here in California, even up north where I am it's still pretty warm, at least in the day times. Take care, and know you are not alone.
- the past 4 days could have been key, bbut maybe I blew it again. Thursday some
work at home, and then helping her with the endless garage cleaning. Mainly
pulling stuff out and trying to sell at our very informal garage sale. Informal,
that is, nobody knew about it. She was going to put an ad in the paper but
"forgot". But she blames the lack of success (as she does with most of her
endeavors) on the town being against her, and trying to thwart her efforts. A
last minute sign on the highway near us brought a few lookers. Sold one picture.
Friday the same.
Friday night we watched the pres debates. We usually agree politically so that should be a safe activity. When it ended we watched a little of the tv analysis. All of a sudden she goes into the bedroom. After a few minutes I go in to see if she is ok. She asks me what year it is. I jokingly say, she knows what year it is, what year would you like it to be. She asks what year we saw the same debates. The very same debates I ask. Yes with Bush and Kerry, she answers. Other than a few weeks ago, I say there could not be any other debates, I say. Liar, she says. You and the cable people, in fact the whole country is trying to drive me crazy. I try to assure her what we saw live was real. Then I get accused of the usual, and she starts screaming at me. Then things start to fly. I head for the door. She says if you want to go, then go. She then thrusts and an open purple pen at my tee shirt, decorating it.
She grabs my cell phone and puts it in her pocket. Ok, I say, keep the phone. You won't be able to communicate with me. By now about 2 am. She thinks about it and hands me the phone. She opens the door and says if you arn't going to back me up, we are through. Out I go.
Spent rest of night sleeping in an apartment parking lot. Mid morning went to visit my pregnant daughter to update her on what was going on. My intention at that time was to stay away and told her so. My daughter reminded me that next Saturday was her baby shower that my wife was supposed to attend, and could I postpone my running away for another week. I also found out that my inlaws would also be there from out of town. That will be interesting.
Since I really had nowhere to go, and it was 2 days early to drive back to the big city where I work, and no money, and the van was not real comfortable to live in, etc etc, I responded to the next cell phone call from my wife (of which ther were many all night), I told her I would be home soon.
Back home she wanted to know why I did that again to her, where was I , etc. If I really want to leave her, why can't we sit down and talk about it? Good idea if she could talk and listen in a normal manner.
We continued the weekend more normally as if nothing happend, but she did ask why every so often.
Back at work now and away from her. Next weekend ought to be real interesting. I hope there is no confrontations at the baby shower. But I bet there will be fireworks....
Don't know how the above posted me as a guest, but it's just me, bsc.
How'd the weekend go?
you for asking. It's now Monday afternoon. I am now back at work in the big
city. I am still alive so I guess it could have worse.
Came home Friday night acting like I didn't know what was going on about our daughters baby shower, and the fact that my wifes parents were coming to visit. Of course their main purpose was for my mother-in-law to participate in the baby shower. Also they hadn't been out to see us for several years.
My daughter told me the week before that they did not plan to to visit us at our house because of my wifes behavior when we saw them for the microvisit last July. Also, based on what I have been telling them, they were a little afraid.
My wife agonized all Friday night about the gift she had bought. She showed me a list that my daughter gave her by phone of what she wanted. Of course my wife didn't buy any of those things. She told me one of her crazy stories that when she bought it, a blonde near the cashier made a cell phone call and told someone that she didn't get the right thing. We've lost control of her she told the person on the other end. I assured my wife that if a blonde made a call near her, it had nothing to do with her. I assured her to give the gift she wanted to give regardless of her hearing voices to the contrary.
Next morning I was supposed to man the garage sale. Very cold. windy day. Wife was jealous that her mother was taking over her role in helping with shower. I told her she had the opportunity to particpate but refused to since she didn't even believe our daughter was pregnant. She said she wasn't going to go, especially since it was being held in a church, and she didn't like my son-in-laws family whom she thought would be there in droves.
I didn't argue with her. I just stayed ouside in the cold looking for customers. About half hour after she was supposed to be there, she comes out with the gift, wrapped perfectly. She announces she will go anyway, and leave early if she has to. She would get there almost an hour late at this point.
I was glad to see her go. But I agonized for the next several hours about her state of mind when she got back. Would she say something stupid? Would her mother, or either daughter confront her? Would she come back in tears? Screaming? etc?
Two hours later she returned with a big smile on her face, as if she conquered something. Not many members of that awful family. That awful minister was nowhere to be seen. She was happy to see her mother and our other daughter (but she thought they seemed a bit cold towards her). She had taken some digital pics she showed me. I was surprised.
Then she started complaining that whenever her parents are in town, they always come over. How come her mother just went back to the hotel and she hadn't seen her father yet?
About an hour later they called to ask us out for dinner on the other side of town. My wife wanted them to come over to our side so she could show off her "decorating handiwork".
We went over there. Good dinner. Standard conversations. Except a few unexpected( by them) comments from my wife. Stopped in their hotel room for more conversation. Really good evening to my surprise.
Rest of evening by ourselves resulted in the usual form her, why are all you guys trying to fool me. She said, I can sit there with a smile while you all lie to me about what is really going on. I will ask my mother tomorrow if they come over. Then got into a big argument about money. She made $100 dollars so far from the garage sale. I should know what to do with it, to invest it and turn it into $1000. I told her if I knew how to do that, we wouldn't need a garage sale. She screamed that I was still lying to her, and didn't want her to get rich so she would be beholden to me for the rest of her life. I assured her if I knew that secret we wouldn't have our problems. etc.
She finally calmed down. Went to bed . She is now sick with a very bad cold, some fever, etc. Probably from working in the cold wind all week selling outside.
Sunday we sleep in till noon. I go out to continue the sale. She comes out and moves everything around, It is her sale afterall.
Only one sale up to 3 pm. She starts screaming and throwing things that this town is against her, the neighbors are laughing, and how come her parents didn't come over for breakfast as they usually do when they visit. I assure her the will be here soon (not really knowing what their plans are).
4 pm they drive up. She is ecstatic. She takes her mother in to show off the house. I stand outside talking to my father-n-law. He helps me put stuff back in the garage.
Inside, nice conversation for another hour. Wife suggests she could cook dinner or go out again, our treat this time. They say they had a late lunch and weren't really hungary yet. And it was getting dark and he can't drive in the dark like he used to.
We said goodbye, but my wife was very dissapointed they didn't stay longer. Then complained they were in on the plot to always set her up for dissapointment. Some arguing and screaming about that. Ten I offerd to take us out for dinner or make it. She said she felt to sick to go out. That she would make it later.
Rest of the night was pretty good. This morning she was angry that I was going to work. Told her I have used up too much vacation time and my boss needs me there in person more often.
She threw a fit. Then insisted she was going to come with me. I told her it was ridiculous being sick to sit in a motel room. Big argument. I grabbed my stuff, put in car, and took off. She called about 6 times on cell phone. I assured i loved her and would come home thurs instead of friday to continue garage sale and cleaning.
I did get through another weekend that I expected to be the biggest disaster, but it is another week and weekend of my life gone by. There are a limited number of them. To be happy that I got through another one, is not a goal...
update - she is now glad she didn't come with me. Her parents came back over to
visit for the afternoon. They went out for dinner and had a nice talk. She
didn't say about what. She did mention that her parents seem to go out of there
way to avoid saying anything bad and tried to keep everything upbeat. She said
it was nice but seemed a little artificial because her mom is not always so
I guess her parents got my point - did the best they could. Probably thinking they are glad they don't have to live with her every day.
She did get more sentimental and syrupy then usual, saying she really missed her mom and wished they could live closer.
"All's well that ends well," but will it stay that way. Doubt it .....
it sure didn't - Tuesday.
Called her Tues a.m. to see how she is doing (sick remember). She says, you missed all the excitement. The police were out here. Police? What Happened?
She says, I went outside to see what the noise was. Apparently the green lawn spray man was out doing the fall application. So? Then I looked up in the backyard pine tree and saw a dead squirrel. So? It was laying on the branch dead. That is unusal for a squirrel to die laying on a branch - although I don't know where they normally go to die.
She says, I thought it was an early halloween prank. I don't trust anybody around here, so I called the police.
He came out and took it seriously, and was very polite. It was on a low branch so he removed it for me. He said if there were any other problems, don't hesitate to call.
Poor cop doesn't know what he is getting into.
Several hours later my cell phone plays its tune. It's her screaming in my ear about the car is broken. Can't get a word in edgewise to find out the problem,
Turns out the battery was dead. She is trying to jump start it with the other car that doesn't run, but whose battery is good. She is trying to string together 2 sets of jumper cables. Clever idea but not quite there. Not enough voltage.
Long story short she finally figures out to take the good battery out of the bad car. The connections were already loose, and the anchors removed. She finally starts the car., but doesn't let it run long enough, so it won't restart.
Finally gets it going. Goes out to pay bills. This involved not less then 10 screaming phone calls to me and about an hour of my time. I told her to call AAA in the first place.
DD.....yes. Because, she says, the dead battery is connected to the dead squirrel. Who ever did the one, did the other. I suspect the battery died because the car door doesn't shut without a good slam. Sometimes it remains ajar just enough for the dome light to stay on, and run the battery down overnight.
She says since I am not there to help her, she is going to have the police come by periodically to check on things.
Every week she wants to come with me to the big city when
I go to work. Yesterday
morning she was very insistant, packed a suitcase, and away we went. Everything
was fine, dropped me off at work, picked me up, stopped at
store to get somethings to
eat. Went back to the motel, watched some good tv, ate, even danced. She showed
me the clothes she bought at the store. Said she would take them all back since
we couldn't afford them, since I had holes in my undershirt. Here it comes I
Went to bed lovingly, she seemed happy. Four clock in the morning she starts her usual crap. While she is away, "they" are breaking into the house, putting back all the junk she got rid of in the garage. I am glad just before we left we made an inspection of the garage and noted out loud what was there, and what was not. I am sure when we get back she will point out some evidence that something happened while she was gone.
Before we left she said she wanted to come with me, but questioned why I finally gave in. As if to say that if I do something to please her, it is also part of the plot. Can't win for losing.
The four clock in the morning bitching went on till six. We fell back asleep till 8:30. Now very late for work. I got up, ate something, got dressed. I reminded her that unless she wanted to be stuck in motel all day, she needed to get up to drive me to work.
Knowing she had some power over me, she went on and on about the usual. Started getting physically violent, throwing things, breaking motel lamp, banging on wall, yelling, etc. I have seen this before. Reminded me of why I never want to take her.
She finally drove me to work, while telling me she wasn't going stay all week so I had better rent a car. Can't afford that so I may have to cut my work week short. When will I ever learn....
I've been away from the forum for a little while now, and come back to the exact same post months later-- I'm sorry you're still in the middle of it all.
Glad to hear you all are still posting. I just dropped in for a minute to let you know how well we are doing. We moved into a little place on the beach and that has been peaceful! Can you imagine me using that word after so much chaos? My hub is still on the Abilify, 7.5 mg per day. Not complaining too much about it, as he knows it helps. The kids are settling in nicely, and making an effort themselves to keep schoolwork up, which sounds normal, no? As well as everything is, I feel I'm still a little shellshocked and jumpy over little things, waiting for the other shoe to drop, but it's slowly getting better and my counselor helped with that. Just because it can happen doesn't necessarily mean it will happen. I just have to keep telling myself that.
So, now that I'm working full time I can check in more often to visit my old friends here! Hugs all around.
wanted to say that I think this is an amazing forum. I posted for the
first time up in the
"annoncement please read" by accident with my whole story. My ex was DD and
The Dragon idea has intrigued me and the "not confronting" ( I was and am still very bad with that so maybe that is why things ended as they did I do not know). You ALL have a lot to deal with and I give you ALL credit for sticking by your spouses. If you read my story UP there in the wrong place...I had to endure a divorce as a result of DD and other menatl illness symptoms in my former husband.
His were paranoid, persucatory ( MOSTLY), grandiose and somatic...with a bit of depression and possible schizoaffective thrown in for good measure. It was a THRILL!!!
I found that I called the "dragon" "the other one". And refused to speak to "him". I'd speak to my husband but ignore "the other". I told him that though... my mistake! The "other" accused me of murder and crimes and abortion and infidelity ( ALL untrue). He told my family, my friends. He could not be in social places without the same symptoms you all describe of people smirking at him or making signs toward him or gestures which were threatening in some way. His bosses at work were going to kill him, it went on and on and on. He ceased to functin properly and to this day is untreated and will never be the same. He tried meds and therapy for about a year and gave up on it. I KNOW it was working but he hated it...WHY do they WANT these delusions in their heads WHY would they choose them over a spouse, a child , a family and friends?? It is more powerful than any drug or drink that is for sure!
He too had a messed up childhood, his mother had this, come to find out she too had been hospitalized ( and given electroshock back in the 60's). He was often cold and uncaring yet craved attention and love but never gave it. He was sensitive to the oddests things... again... things that would normally not bother others... botherd him.
I'll continue to read these posts...I wish I had known about this 3 years ago when I was going through my nightmare!
Everyone. I’ve been reading your posts for over 5 months now. I’m trying very
hard to make some sense out of a friendship that was rekindled this past year.
I was contacted by a kid I grew up with. We hadn’t communicated in over 30 years. He was a beautiful writer and at first I really enjoyed reading about his life. But over time (and I must admit – I was probably a little slow to catch on) things just started to sound more and more odd.
He was extremely proud of his job. He often talked at length (rarely asked me questions about my life) about the “gigantic” project he was working on. Its enormous significance and complexity (in reality it was a big and exciting project). He would work all night. He was convinced that if he didn’t have his important job I wouldn’t be interested in him (probably not true).
He had problems with people at work. He felt people were “attacking” him everyone was “enraged” with him. He was given an unfavorable performance evaluation which his attorney wife told him was “actionable”. Years previous he had been involved with a whistle blowing law suit, and was awarded “hundred of thousands of dollars”.
He was very intelligent and was knowledgeable about Jungian psychology, shamanism, astrology, etc. He liked to “dive deep” into his unconscious. He believed he lived his life through his dreams and wanted very much for us to meet up during dreamtime. He paid attention to synchronicities, and throughout his day “looked for clues”.
He believed Carlos Castaneda, was his taxi driver one evening. He talked about a time he was on the moon. He suspected his son wasn’t biologically his. He thought that perhaps his wife had been unfaithful and his son was a product of that incident. But as it turns out he is pretty sure that his son is the reincarnation of his younger brother (who died in an accident many years ago).
He believes in all kinds of conspiracy theories, thinks black hawk helicopters run surveillance on his house.
At first, he was enthusiastic about our friendship, very supportive and loving. He would cite all kinds of “evidence” and reasons why we should be friends. Write fictional stories which featured us as characters. He claimed to have dreamt of me for years…
I found him utterly fascinating and intriguing. But after a while I began to “confront” (question) him. He would be very upset with me – accusing me of being faithless, and unsympathetic.
He came for a visit and introduced me to some people who he later “forbids” me to ever contact again. And when I asked why, he was very upset and couldn’t understand why I couldn’t just believe that it was “dangerous”. This specific exchange is what led to our break. He became very upset with me because I was unable to accept an edict from him without some explanation or reasoning.
From the very beginning he seemed paranoid, and unable to trust me.
He had a history of psychedelic drug use, and also suffered a life threatening trauma when he was 9 years old.
I know you all can’t diagnose – but this whole experience has shaken my world and I so want to understand what the hell happened. I’m wondering if he wasn’t delusional – jealousy and grandiose type. But then I wonder about other things such as: bipolar, narcissistic, paranoid., etc. Early in our friendship he said he dissociated.
Any thoughts or comments would be helpful. I guess I’m wondering if at first you all perceived your partners idiosyncrasies as intriguing, magical and mystical attributes (as I did).
My “friend” has completely cut me off since he can’t cope with my directness, and I miss him. I am floored by my ability to be so intrigued by his persona….of course I don’t live with him and would probably not feel this way if I did !
wife was normal (I think) when she first came into my life 26 years ago. Nothing
magical. I just fell in love and then learned to love her as our life grew
together. If she was as "crazy" then as she is today, I doubt our relationship
would have gone beyond a few dates.
Looking back, however, there were hints as what was to come. There was always some paranoia in her relationships with other people. She found excuses not to associate with most neighbors and other aquantenances. She always seemed to be in some imaginary competition them.
The "looking for clues" comment applies to my wife. Lately (past several months) she refers to clues in the code. The code is taking words apart syllable by syllable, or letter by letter, until she concocts some screwy message that "they" or I am trying to tell her. She calls this the subtext or subliminal message. She always asks me why I can't be straight with her and talk to her directly instead of through these codes. When I tell her to just stop taking my words apart and listen to what I am saying on the surface, she says she can't stop. She has to try to figure it all out with clues I am supplying.
She also "sees" famous people in the most unexpected places. She yells at me for not agreeing that it is who she says.
Intelligence - yes. In the past several years since this started, my wifes vocabulary has improved 3 fold. Her manner of expressing herself is way beyond what it used to be. I am amazed and quite pleased with this aspect of the "new" her, but the cost of this improvement is not worth it.
You imply he is married. Stay away no matter how fascinating you may find him, or you will be posting here much more often.
You imply that he is married
To the person who re-kindled an old friendship with an obviously delusional man--stay away!
You and the other man describe my ex to a tee. He too thought folks at work were after him and that the Black Hawk helicopters were circling our house. His vocabulay increased dramatically as well (again I kinda liked that part too).
My--why do so many of their delusions seem the same? There are definite themes and concepts that are almost identical!
Maybe there really is something going on here that the rest of us "normals" are not a part of? If so-- I am glad to NOT be a part of it-- thank you very much!
My ex thought many things and read many things and believed every damn conspiracy theory out there. He was very persuasive until it all began to make NO SENSE and until I became the target of his delusional paranoia. Eventually they turn on everyne who challengs them and they will cut off all contact and they will blame you. You feel awful-- as if you did something wrong-- when in reality you did not and should not feel bad at all. It is a miserable existence and one I will not soon recover from. I will take the memories and the pain with me for a very log time and I warn all who can--to get out of any relationship with such individuals as it can be very dangerous, physically and emotionally to you-- the NON DELUSIONAL , RATIONAL one.
Thanks to both of you for the appropriate and sage warnings...too bad I was so
ignorant and got as caught up as I did!
I am suffering from the pain of believing that I did something so evil, wrong and faithless- to make him so angry. I'm mostly distressed by how easily he could shut me out - especially since he went to such extreme lengths to convinced me that we HAD to explore our friendship.
Oh well live and learn...now I know about being delusional....never really knew what the word meant before.
Tori - you are probably right. The conspiracyy is collectively on their part against us in the real world.
been reading past posts to this forum on many different subjects and concerns. I
am totally blown away by the similarities we have ALL experienced!! I was alone
when I went thru this awful experince with my ex for about 3 years ( of major
psychotic breaks) and hind site being *20/20 * and boy haven't you ALL said that
here before-- for almost our entire relationship which was 17 years.
He truly manifestd his DD and PD symptoms at the age of 36. That was his first psychotic break when he locked himself in our basement with knives and survival gear and was convinced his employer, our neighbors, our friends and me were trying to kill him. It was a scene I will NEVER forget. It was insane and dangerous enough for the me to be able call 911 and have police witness it and have him hospitalized. He was hospitalized a total of 5 times in a 3 year period. 3 times NOT of his own will and once of his own will and once by a JUDGE! There were smaller indicators all along but they slowly built to a crescendo over about a 3 month period--when he totally broke with all reality.
He took Risperdal and Wellburtin and Ambien and while on those meds we had a WONDERFUL delusion FREE and psychotic free 9 months. After that he went off all meds, delusions returned, he threw me out of my house and began divorce proceedings and called the police on me and accused me of attempted murder. NOT nice-- I was questioned unil they finally saw he was truly insane but they can be, as you have all mentioned, very normal and persuasive at times and he was for a while. His own family believed him for a while and then finally saw he was NOT well and knew I was not the "evil one". He even tried to convince my own mother I tried to kill him but she, never, thank God...fell prey to his persuasive abilities.
I originally contested the divorce due to his mental state and had a judge evaluate him ( this was NOT easy but I found a lawyer who specialized in this kind of thing for a hefty fee of course...)...that landed him back in the hospital on a JUDGES orders. In the end these court proceedings and lawyers fees were killing me so I just gave up and gave in and said I'll be better off without him.
Now...after so many episodes and terrible finacial issues he's $50+,000 in debt ( thank God I read here that others have also experinced the *manic* spending on things--only the best as well-- and many things were survival grear and surveilance oriented)...he's got major money probelms and some of them , of course, have spilled over on to me. I'm just coming out of the debt issues now.
I too saw a therapist to try and deal... I too even had anxiety issues as a result of what I lived with. As in other cases I read here, I too was dismissed by my therapist... and him telling me there was nothing wrong with me...I just had to adjust to what was the matter with my husband and accept that he will never be the same and to allow my divorce to go forward and get on with my life.
So I did. I let go. I got on with my life. I am now re-married and happy but will always be wounded by this experience. I cannot tell you what pain this caused me. I had that man ( my ex) to so many doctors and to one of THE best psychiatric hospitals in the Mid Atlantic of the USA and still...he was not made well as he did NOT want to be and refused to belive he had or has an illness.
Almost every thing I have read in this forum happened to my husband and to me. He thought the same things and acted in the same manners and it was KILLING me...I could not stanb it any longer. But I did fight to save my marriage and I didn't give it up without a fight. He's a sad and very sick man and I feel sorry for him but I also feel incredible anger and remorse.
I could go on and on with the mutitiude of stories but I won't.
I think I am just healing now and it has been three years since my divorce. And I think finding this forum now.. .when I 'm at the end of my experience... is a way to tell me I was okay and I did nothing wrong. Because for years I blamed myself. Now I really see I had NOTHING to do with ANY of it. I see so many of you going thru what I went thru and I feel terrible for ALL of you and KNOW how much of a struggle it is.
I cannot say that I hold out hope that those of you who are struggling against insurmountable odds to save your marriage will...in the end. I know I didn't and it seems as if the psychiatric profession still doesn't know how to treat this illness so I am not hopeful that there will be happy endings. But to those who continue to struggle--God Bless you! I just could not.
Thanks Tori for sharing your story. You sound like a very strong person. You must
have loved your exhusband very
much - fighting
for your marriage as you did -
despite his behavior.
Do you have children with this man? Was he jealous of others?
One of the things I found interesting (don't worry I haven't been in contact with him for weeks) is how he was always trying to prove things to me. He would seek out and present "evidence" but I wasn't sure what exactly he was trying to prove. And for the longest time I just went along with everything, didn't question anything and just enjoyed his intriguing persona...
He's 50 now, and I wonder if he will stabalize, get worse or get better. I'm pretty sure he doesn't take drugs for his mental illness...but enjoys recreational drugs (mostly hallucinogens) and painkillers.
Did your husband abuse drugs or alcohol? How does recreational drug use effect their behavior?
PS - is there really no spell check on this forum? Yikes!
Well...I was not so strong but I became very strong throughout the process.
My ex was always tryng to present evidence and still does but the evidence never mataches the claims--or is circumstantial at best.
He used recreational drugs when he was younger, pot and speed and cocaine. However, the doctors felt it had nothing to do with this diagnnosis of DD and PPD and Depression. Also he was not a big drinker and so that left out alcohol as an issue.
Hallucinogens DO contribute to such disorders and if this man continues to use them I would wonder if they weren't the culprit...but I am not a physician and neither of any of us in this forum. I do remeber when my ex had his first psychotic break the doctors were concerned that he was actively on some kind of drug, even the ephedra diet pills and vitamin supplements with ephedra can cause this. He was taking massive doses of vitamins ( in his somatic state he was convinced he had cancer <<caused by my or another person's poisoning him of course...>>>and needed to "cure" himself in a homeopathic way). We had him through a series of physical exams, sugar, thyroid, all bloodwork EKG's and a brain MRI---Nada, nothing physical. So...there left no answer other then psychological.
He is still delusional to this day and his delusions have indeed shifted once I was out of the picture. And they didn't start with me origianlly ONLY centered on me when I challenged him and as we all know-- that is the nail in the coffin-- God Forbid you challenge these delusions and try to make them see they are making no sense and then you too are "in on" ALL of it. Same story as everyone has mentioned in here. Names and faces may change but the damn story is almost identical and the same. How sad!!! He then turned on his own family ( ahhh sweet revenge for me...I KNOW that is bad to say--BUT ONLY then did they finally beleive me and see that he was truly very ill...). Then they ( the delusions) turned to the neighbors then they turned to the police then they turned to anyone and anything he could possibly blame anything at all on. It just never ends.
We didn't have kids I had two miscarriages and he said they were abortions. The last one was right after his first psychotic break. I was pregnant when he locked himself in the basement...no wonder I miscarried. But, of course, that was murder to him. I could not win. My mother says "thank God" there were no children in the end considering his behavior. She was convionced that if there were he'd have tried to kidnap them. As it was he made up the children for one of the therapists and said I left him and two small boys for another man and he was a single father doing the best he coould. He even resurrected his dead mother for that therapist
(she'd been dead 20 years she had mental probelms too) and told this dumb therapist that the mother watched the boys while he worked two jobs. This stupid therapist belived him until another family member, who knew the supervising psychiatrst, set them straight. That little episode landed him back in the hospital this time by the hands of his own family memebers!!!!
On and on I could go....
And yes, I too wish there was a spell checker in this thing!!!
These stories make me grateful that I am not in relationship with my friend and
that he lives 3,000 miles a way.
I know I shouldn't even care - but he has told me that he is very sorry for the pain and anxiety he has caused me. Knowing and observing him - it's hard for me to believe that he is truly remorseful. I believe he is trying to placate me - have you seen and really believed your partners to be remorseful or sorry about anything?
I say this because he has told me that he is sorry to have lost relationships only in that now he was unavailable to access something from that person. He was terrible arrogant and had so many enemies.
Thanks for taking the time to post. As you probably have read in some of my previous posts we have led very similar lives. I seem to be a few years behind you. I was lucky to have the benefit of the internet and this web site for support. It must have been difficult to go through this all alone. My next step is the actual divorce. It seems to be more of a formality since we have been separated a year already. Your post gives me hope for a happy future.
- thank you for your story. For every &qquot;successful" (admittedly not a good
expression) split up I read about, I get a little more encouragement to go and
She spent last week here in the big city where I work, driving me crazy with her shenanigans. A 48 year old women acting like a teenager in public. I tried to make her stay home in the small town, but she fed the cats, grabbed her suitcase, and junped in the car. If I protest too much, she knows it's a sign I am not going where I say I am going. She thinks I don't work where I say. She says I am just driving around the corner and hiding.
She was also with me two weeks ago. She wants to spend time together, and insists that our living apart is the main cause of her problems. No way. When this first started, we were living together. It made no difference.
She just called me at work to get the head man at the cable company. She insists that the programs we get are not up to date. That we are seeing reruns, even of shows that are new original shows. She says everything is being rerun, movies, video rentals.
Then she says our house is not secure when we go away. Some bills have not been paid, and we are getting collection calls, and utility cutoff warnings. When she went to the file to prove she had paid them, she could not find the "proof". Obviously, someone broke into the house and took the evidence just to make her look stupid.
When I complain that she just did not pay them, she says therfe you go telling me I am paranoid. I am not, you are for suggesting that I am wrong. Makes no sense.
I am afraid she will cancel the cable or do something else stupid.
Incidently, hallucingens work in a similar fashion to the cause of many personality disorders. Excessive dopamine in the brain puts it on hyper-drive. As my wife describes it, thoughts of all sorts are constantly circulating and recirculating.
thoughts circling and re-circling are called two things "ruminating "and
"racings thoughts". They are, indeed, very common with delusional-type
disorders. Those terms come directly from the literature and the
My ex had them ALL the time. It is one thing we tried to "work on" in talk therapy but in all honesty ONLY the meds, especially the anti-psychotics, can stop them. Sometimes the anti-depressents can actually make them worse.
My ex lost bills all the time as well. I took over paying the bills, while I was still married, a very long time before he even manifested true delusional symptoms. The forgetfulness came first, the constant misplacing of things and accusing me or others of taking them...that all came before the true delusional thought skicked in. He was always very forgetful...I just attributed it to being a man ( sorry to the guys in here... )--however as time went on and his illnes became full-blown these were the pre-cursors to the real psychosis which set in many years later.
While truly delusional he accused me of purposely taking the the occasional pair of socks ( well the single one) which inevitably gets "lost" in the dryer. This common problem to ALL people became my personal fight with him. Sometimes it was too funny NOT to just plain laugh at him. Once he forgot to get a pair of pants out of the dryer and swore up and down and sideways he looked carefully in the dryer for them. I went down stairs to the dryer-- they were in there-- brought them upstairs and he accused me of purposely hiding them on him to make him act crazy. So...we ALL have similar stories. It part of the sad, sad illness they suffer from and make us suffer from in kind.
repetition deja vu thing is what is driving her crazy, and in turn driving me
crazy. I guess the recirculating thoughts I mentioned above may explain it. She
experiences something, movie, tv program, even shopping, then the experience
goes into and right back out of her memory to make her think she has done this
before. I cannot talk her out of it.
The most recent example occurred today. Our daughter had her baby last night making us grandparents for the first time. My wife still cannot be convinced that this is for real. I spent until 3 a.m. last night convincing her to go see our daughter in the hospital. I am working out of town so she had to go alone. This afternoon she called to tell me she cannot be part of this hoax and is not going to the hospital. She said she spent 5 hours debating with herself about what to wear. She usually uses that as an excuse.
I tried to work around the delusions of what she thinks is real or not, and appealed to her motherly instinct. Your daughter needs you, and now her new daughter also needs you. You have to fight off the demons, get yourself together and go see your grand daughter. She finally said OK but I won't know what to say or how to act.
She just called to tell me the visit went very well, the baby is beautiful, etc, etc.....normal reaction. Amazing!
Then after describing everything and everybody, she says, I don't know where the other kid was. I asked, what other kid. She says, this is the second child she had. We've done this before. We have played out this scene before so this must be the second grand daughter. She then says, I know that can't be right but I've done this before.
I said, I have to go, talk to you later.
it's getting worse. She just called screaming that the baby is a fake. Couldn't
possibly me our grandchild. Everything is fake just to drive her crazy, etc,
She did take digital pictures and sent one to me, the other daughter, her parents, her brother. That at least seems normal.
Don't know what I am going to do. Same old thing for the past 3 years. I did turn off my cell phone and stopped answering the motel phone.
YOU have got to get her to a doctor. She could be a danger to that new baby!!!
You must be strong and convince her to go. Put her in the car and drive her to the nearest hospital and try and have them evalute her. IT MAY not be successful but it could be a start.
If you can't or she won't you need to just make up your mind to leave her--plain and simple. It is hard...oh so very hard... but it sounds like she it decompensating rapidly. This IS comon with a new event such as a birth or any change in the "family structure".
She can't be allowed to continue like this.
Decompensating is a psych term for deteriorating. The person's symptoms and
behavior have become worse all of a sudden.
The "professionals" use it when a patient is in the middle of severe psychosis. Many times life chaning events cause stressors which cause the mentally ill person to exhibit worse symptoms than they had been exhibiting. Somtimes it lasts for a short period of time and sometimes it trigers a full blown psychotic episode where they lose all touch with any reality that they have been haging on to.
Today is Wednesday, a grandfather for a week. What joy thanks to
my daughter, what misery thanks to
Last Sunday I got to see her and hold her for a few hours. But several hours before we went I had to hear how this was not really our granddaughter. She was just a hoax perpetrated by the inlaw clan who my wife can't stand. Especially our son-in-law.
She said she was only going so I could see the baby, since she had seen her in the hospital. She wasn't sure if she could fake it very long without saying something everybody would be sorry for. On the other hand, she didn’t think it fair to take it out on an innocent sweet baby regardless of who it really belonged to. Wasn't that big of her.
The visit went very well, until my daughter's neighbor from across the street knocked on the door to tell us he had hit my wife’s car. I thought my wife was going to lose it, but she remained calm while I went out to survey the damage and exchange info. It wasn't that bad from my viewpoint. Later estimates wanted $2000 to fix.
When we went home she jumped on me about the accident also being written into the script to distract her from the baby. How did we get all of these characters into this "play" just to drive her crazy? It's a good question. The rest of the day went down hill to the point where I was ready to run away again. She then changed her tune and got lovey-dovey.
Next morning usual argument about whether she could come with me to the big city. I talked her out of it reminding her to take care of accident/insurance issue, and being a holiday week, would be back Wed night.
Our phone conversations over past 2 days have been nothing but shouting matches and hangups. I really don't feel like driving 5 hours home to spend 4 days fighting with her about the baby, our daughter, her parents, all in on "it".
Nobody wants to come over for TG because of her. She feels hurt but blames everyone elses weirdness. I am promoting breaking our tradition, by going out to eat. She is not sure and is going crazy trying to make up her mind (whats left of it).
I hope the rest of you will have a better one then I'm expecting....
New Years to all.
Haven't posted much past few weeks. Not much progress. Just had 2 and a half weeks home with my DD spouse. Worst 2 weeks of my life. I was ready to run at any time. Not easy since she figured out why I keep my clothes in the car. Now when I come home on weekends, she personally takes them in to our bedroom so she can keep an eye on them, far from the front door. She has also disconnected the garage door opener so I can't sneak out that way. I can't even run out to the store without her finding an excuse for tagging along.
I am in jail. Wow, a great way to live. She says since I have run away before, she doesn't trust me. She is right this time. Almost every hour of every day and night, that is what was on my mind. I was ready to walk even without my clothes. For a few hundred bucks I could replace them. But I didn't go during one of the worst continuous runs of her behavior ever.
She came very close to physical assault again but didn't connect. But threatens with knives into doors and cupboards. She actually stomped (with high chunky heeled shoes) on 3 telephones and broke them.
We were at each others throats for 17 days so she thought we need a break from each other. That is why she let me go off to the big city to work without her - Thank God.
Her demands for the "truth" are getting more insistant. She has been threatening suicide more often, but then turns it around into a lawsuit to get even with the "people" who did this to her.
In trying to use the suicide threat to get her in to a psyche ward, do I call 911 just on her verbal threat alone? She would obviously say she was joking. Would the EMTs then turn around and go back without her? How would that work?
NY resolution - ASAP - get her help or get me help by getting out. Three to five years of this is going to kill me. I have been getting heartburn when I am with her, resulting in hiccups. She insists I am doing it on purpose to annoy her, or get sympathy from "them".
Now I have been out of her company for 8 hours. No heartburn or hiccups.
Just had a telephone fight. She called to say the toilet is broken and I better drive 5 hours home to fix it. tried to talk her through the fix. She did try, didn't work. Screamed at me and "them" for arranging this break when I wasn't home to fix it. After about 1 minute of screaming I hung up. She didn't call back. Amazing!
Just read over your particular case with your wife, and I think it was Tori who said you must get help for your wife, because she could be a danger to your grandchild.
I do not trust my children to stay with my mother anymore. I had noticed that when my children contradicted my mother on something she said which was completely "out of it", she turned on them verbally in a very angry way. I would notice a change in her eyes and felt she could quite easily physically harm them because she would think they were in on "it". So, yes, I would not leave your wife alone with your grand-daughter.
So, why ARE you staying? Haven't YOU suffered enough? Isn't it about time you had peace in your life, not to mention "normality"? Obviously you still feel a commitment to supporting your wife, but at what price? Your wife sounds as though she needs serious help at this point, something which you definitely cannot handle alone.
Having said that, and I know how easy it is for someone else to say it, YOU alone have to be ready to take that step. I wish you well in getting to that point.
looks like we will have 2 separate conversations. One in this thread, and 1 in
the thread you started.
The grandchild issue is a non-issue since my daughter will only come over with her if we call. We did see her a few weeks ago before xmas when my inlaws were visiting to see their great-granddaughter. The baby was safe with plenty of people around her. They did get concerned when my wife dissappeared into the family room with her to show her the xmas tree. A gentle gesture to show your granddaughter your tree. She is very gentle with her and has held many babies. But, as soon as everyone left, my wife raised hell about why everyone is using this beautiful baby to play a joke on her. Still insists our daughter was never pregnant, and the baby is a hoax, but a wonderful sweet baby nevertheless. She kind of wishes she could have a real granddaughter just like her. When I tell her she is ours, your wish has been fullfilled, she screams at me for lying. Our daughter was going to come over the day after xmas with the baby. Left a merry xmas message on the answering machine and asked us to call to tell her what time to come over. My wife said she wasn't really interested in perpetuating this hoax and said she didn't really want her over. Then bitched for the next 3 days about how the family is falling apart, and no one wants to come over to visit for the holidays.
Why am I staying is not very well answered in my 100 plus posts. In more recent days my wife has talked about divorce. She is very perceptive when she says, I can't stand what I have become. How can you stand me? Give me one good reason why you want to stay married to me. That is what "you all" want is to break us up all along. That was the plan wasn't it? I, of course, stand there silently trying to "prove" that there was no plan and that is another delusion.
She has an idealized, overly romantisized view of our relationship. Because I am 17 years older, I think she thought of me as a white knight riding in to save her from her first failed marriage to a guy, who I now realise is a lot smarter than me. He got away from her. She was 22 when we met. I guess another aspect of our relationship, although she hates it when I say it, is she is like a daughter to me. Along with her other 2 daughters whom I adopted, they were a ready made family for me.
At my age, I am hesitant to abandon what I have built, to start over. But maybe I built nothing but a house of cards.
Some years ago I saw a comedian in an anti-wife sketch say, its better to be lonely than miserable. I remember laughing very hard at that line. I guess I really didn't know its meaning until now. It's decision time....
know my feelings on this. But just to let you know, in the 9 months since I
left, I haven't felt lonely at all. Just relieved. My kids really rallied, they
knew, and they have been there for me in ways that make me very proud to be
their parent. Even my in-laws have been supportive. I don't call it being alone,
or being lonely, I just really enjoy my solitude, my every minute deciding what
I want to do, without taking crazy into account. I'm still in the midst of the
mess, haven't gotten the divorce final, still get calls from my husband at work
over one dumb thing or the other (latest is he wants copies of our wedding
pictures, to which I want to reply, "F*(#*&-off", but instead I say, "what? I
can't hear you. Darn cell phones...").
Imagine, time to read, time to watch a TV show uninterrupted, a quiet house. Rent a copy of Shirley Valentine. And the grandkid - geez, I have this beautiful grandson - he'll be 3 this week. The day he was born my husband couldn't even hug me he was so distraught at my whorish behavior. But now I see the little guy weekly - my husband hasn't seen him in 5 months and doesn't even care. You have your daughters, a granddaughter, a job, a full life. It will be better ("can't get much worse...."). And if you ever make it to North California, I'll take you to the wineries & the redwoods and we can have a good laugh at how there was a time when we both thought we'd never laugh again.
Your last few lines brought me tears. Good ones, for feeding my fantasy of what it might be like to be free and alive again.
Ronnie - thank you for an encouraging example. Good for your father for having the guts to make a change later in his life. But it seemed that he suffered for some time until he actually did it. I guess I am in that stage. I know I will do the right thing soon.
Well, it was a long weekend, not intentionally. Our town was hit by a midwest
ice strorm. It shut the power down last Wed night. Of course, my wife called to
ask how to set up and start the generator we bought for Y2K, at her insistance.
I will give you one minute to tell me, she said, because my cell phone is al I
have and can't charge it with no power. Remember she broke the other phones with
her shoe heels.
We practiced once in 1999. Who could remember? Of course she hung up screaming at me how I never help her. I still had work to do and a foot of snow in the big city I work in. I figured she is resourceful. Thurs night I called the township police where I live to find out the power outage will last for many days. I drove home Friday earlier than usual. Found her in our bedroom with a kerosene heater laying on the bed with the cats - pretty cozy.
We went out to get gasoline for the generator. Got it running, and lived on it for 4 days. She was remarkably well behaved. I was sure the stress of the situation, trees and branches down, back door broken, etc would set her off. No - she was good.
Yesterday while I was getting ready to come back to work she went back into her usual routine.
I got away this morning. Talked her out of coming with me. I did think last week that it would be the week to say, I am not coming back home until you get treatment. Postponed again....
Last weekend was also 4 days. Got MLK day off and tacked on a vac day. Spending
more time with my DD wife is not improving things, although she insists it is my
being away that caused all this to happen.
On MLK day I went for a job interview much closer to home. So close that I could live at home again. Haven't heard anything from the HR lady yet. If I got the job and started living at home full time again, I'll have to rethink my escape plan. My wife is excited about the possibility, on the one hand. On the other hand, she is not sure this will really cure her, or us. First time in a long time I agree with her.
Finished reading the article by Charlton. Thank you very much Faithful for helping me around my company's internet policy. I am not sure what he said. I think he differentiated between bazarre and non-bazarre delusions and gave reasons for the difference. Also thought that meds for non-bazarre will probably not help, but talk therapy might. In a way I am disappointed to find out that probably nothing is going to help my wife. Yet some on the forum have pointed to some success. Of course the article was theoretical, and is only one mans opinion.
I will head home tomorrow for, hopefully, only 2 days of torture. It will be hard talking her out of coming with me next week. Then a whole week of torture. The motel I have been staying in for almost 3 years has closed down. Need to find something else. More problems...
I understood from the Cognitive Therapy articles (sort of, they are very technical)
is that it may be possible to teach DDs to respond differently to their
delusions. If you recall the story in "A Beautifu Mind" about John
Nash, he never stopped having delusions, but when he met someone new, he
would turn to someone he knew was real and ask that person, "is this person I
see really here?" Of course, he is a genius, and battled his mental illness for
decades before getting this functional (the movie doesn't show this, read the
book to really get an idea), but this is an illustration I think of what
Cognitive Therapy might attempt to do.
Let us know about the possible new job. Sounds like you have a lot on your plate. My life with my husband began reaching the breaking point soon after our grandson was born, and I found time with the baby most soothing. Caring for a baby is as real as it gets. I hope you can fit in some grandchild time, it's good for the soul.
Can't fit in any grandchild time since my wife still does not recognise that
grand child as being ours. Since they were over to visit the week before xmas,
when my inlaws were there, my wife has not ever referred to the granddaughter.
She does pose the question of "I wonder what the kids are doing? Why haven't
they called? Etc?" Never once saying, I wonder how the baby is doing, or
acknowledging that one of the kids she is referring to has a child now. Like she
I don't bring it up because it will start a fight. Though it hardly matters since we can't have a conversation without one. Things are getting worse.
This past weekend wound up being 3 days instead of 2. I was expecting I big snowfall in both my town and the big city where I work. I took home my work computer in case I got snowed in I could work from home. I do that from time to time. I decided to call in semi-sick. Coming down withsomething but will work from home. Avoids burning up vac time. I noticed my wife looking over my shoulder watching very closely as I did math tricks with spreadsheets. For security, the companycomputer locks itself if there is no activity for 5 minutes. I guess I had mentioned that to her. She made an excuse for me to go upstairs to check something out. When I came back down she was sitting at the laptop exploring. She found a file with live internet bookmarks. I watched over her shoulder as she started clicking on them. This forum was one of them, but name is disguised to look like something technical or work related. She did go for the borderline PD links though. She wanted to know why I had these bookmarks in my work computer. She also found several others I wish she hadn't found. I explained that several years ago I was trying to find out the cause of her problems so I could help her. She protested "I am not crazy, you are for thinking I am, and you need to see someone". etc etc.
I did manage to talk my way out of it but it did change the tone of an otherwise fair weekend to really bad. By evening I was getting ready to run but stayed because it was too cold to sleep in my car. Next morning I was getting ready to leave when she said I had better call in sick again since she wanted to spend the day hashing it out. I said absolutely not, I am leaving now. I went out, cleaned the snow off the van, started backing out of the driveway. She ran around the back, opened the rear tailgate door. I slowed down the backing to a crawl but kept going. I thought she would try to grab my suitcase or computer. She walked backwards keeping up with the car. She was screamin gthat I was running over her. She did not fall down. Then I went forward quickly to shake her loose. I felt like a Laurel and Hardy movie. I knew she wasn't hurt and her screams were pretty fake. I pulled to the end of the street, got out to close my tailgate. Through her a kiss and waved, and took off. Of course she was on the cell phone within minutes of how she could have gotten hurt. I was afraid if I didn't get out of there, i would be hurt.
The rest of the week was terrible on the phone. Was interupted 4 -5 times while typing this. Should I go home tomorrow??? Each phone call she tells me something else is broken that was just fixed. Toilet, tv, computer, phone. She "needs" me to come hom eto fix them. Should I??? Will I???
Sounds like you not only need to stay away, but need to change your cell
phone number. You've already been
physically injured - it just isn't safe for you to both be in the same house.
My husband finally hired a lawyer to handle our divorce, and although I dreaded it because it will make the whole thing more complicated and expensive, it is also a relief, as I really don't ever need to talk to him any more. There is life after crazy.
Update - I did go home Friday night. Bad Saturday. Good Sunday, brunch out,
shopping, movie. Then we got into knock down (literally) drag out fight.
Unfortunately, she insisted I bring in my suitcase and clothes from the car. I had already planned on not having those if I had to exit quickly. I put half my clothes in the cleaners where I work. The toiletries can be replaced. This fight started in earnest when I was in a state of half undressed. I grabbed my pants shoes undershirt and ran out into the cold, snowy night. She knew what I was going to do so she hid my coat with my cell phone, calculator and work ID in the pocket. She thought that was going to stop me from running out while she was throwing things at me, breaking things again, etc etc. Good thing I keep my keys in my pants pockets always. Now she has that figured out too.
I do keep a heavy flannel shirt in the car along with extra blue jeans in case of getting stuck in winter. I drove around for a while trying to decide what to do. I could stop at all night WalMart to buy a coat and a few other things, then drive to the big city.
Then I thought, here's my chance to take the bull by the horns. I stopped at the local police station. Talked to a duty officer about my problem. Found out there is no Kendra type law (see my other post) in my state. He said I would have to wait until morning and go down to the county probate court to file an appeal to get her picked up by the sheriff and taken to the hospital. The only other thing he could do is to accept a complaint of domestic violence from me, if I was ready to do that. He could take her in but she would be released in the morning. No mental evaluation.
The next option was, he could follow me home to get my stuff, and protect me while I did so. For immediate practical reasons, I chose that one. When I got home with the cop behind, she was not there. I went in and got my stuff. She left a note saying she was out looking for me, and please call her. Sweet! I thanked the cop, and started heading for the highway.
I no sooner turned on my cell phone, she called. Surprise, surprise. She was in tears about having a flat tire and the car was making a funny noise. She wanted to know where I was. I didn't tell her but knowing the route I usually take, she pulled up behind me. She stopped the car and ran out crying, knocking on my window to open the door. I did get out and hugged her while checking out the tires. No flats.
I said I have to go and cannot take any more of her rght now, and drove off. Went through a red light to do it. She of course followed me. Very foggy night. Her headlights in my rear view mirror faded away after the first mile. I thought she gave up , turned around and went home. Few moments later, cell phone singing its song, she was crying even louder than before. I could barely understand her but heard enough to indicate she was off into a snow banked ditch. Said she was stuck and please turn around to help her. I thought another ploy and didn't believe her. Then she said someone was stopping to help, and heard a male voice say I am a state trooper and I will tow you out. Good I thought. Helped twice by the police in one night. I didn't hear from her for about an hour as I continued west through the heavy fog. The next call was from home instead of her cell. I didn't answer it knowing she was home and safe. I was still more in a hate her mode. Made it to work about 5 in the morning. Caught a few hours sleep in the car. Life continues on. My communication with her have been even more stilted then normal. Sure hope she doesn't follow me here. She finally got the idea (a little) when she asked me if I would be home to eat the special superbowl meal we usually order, next weekend.Love the meal and the halftime. I don't even knows who is playing. Can I think that far in advance?
I think I should talk to a lawyer in outr town....
I have to speak up. How much more can you take? Do what you have to do while you have it in you. If you wait things will calm a brief moment and then you'll lose the courage to do what has to be done. I know everyone has to do things in their own timeframe but it sure seems like you have put up with way more than the rest of us. Trust us when we say life can be happy and normal again.
Take care of yourself. (and I hope I didn't offend you.)
No reason you can't get your traditional meal & watch the game like always, but by yourself, or with friends, or with your daughter and granddaughter. Without crazy. You will enjoy normal, believe us.
Thank you ladies for your encouragement and concern. In the past 2 days of phone
calls with her she has gone back to business as usual. However, she does say we
have a lot to talk about regarding our future. I agree with her. She then adds
her usual anthem, if you think I am crazy it is because of you and your friends.
It never ends. But you've all heard my story many times.
It would be so easy for me to think, business as usual, and go home Friday to the weekends I used to look forward to, now dread. I can't make any decisions without talking to a lawyer. I am concerned about the property I leave behind. I can physically keep myself away from her (unless she follows me to the big city), but I need some logistical way of "moving out" with a lot of stuff intact. It doesn't matter what the law or court order may say, how can you stop a crazy person? I am getting more serious...have patience...
here I am talking to myself again. I just reviewed what I wrote 3 weeks ago.
Have patience, I said to you and myself. I am still waiting for myself to act.
In the past 3 weeks I ran away several times. Last week was different. I had the opportunity to combine business travel with some vacation, by car. We traveled about 2200 miles around the southeast in 7 days. She was very happy to be with me, and get away from the house and town she claims are causing all her mental problems. But it was not that much fun for me because of her behavior. Besides her usual paranoia about people around her, she acted like a complete 2 year old jerk - a spoiled child. Not too appreciative of what we could do for half price, but demanding more. Wanted me to charge even more on the company credit card than justifiable. Still, of course, insisting that I don't really work for that company. It's all fake. I am just out to make a fool of her, even while we were hiking along mountain trails and "having fun".
Just thought I would check in. I do read the posts several times a week. Good luck to me....one of these days....
am still waiting for myself to act. For the last 5 weeks she has been with me in
my work city, and even came along on a business trip to Canada.. Now she is
telling me where to stay and where to eat. Definitely costing more money than I
would usually spend.
When I complain that she is using poor judgement, she says just come home, retire, and we will live happily everafter. One of her delusions is that we have a lot of money stashed away, and retirement and spending should not be of any concern. No confronting her about it. She just says I am lying as usual, and then brings up the whole litany of accusations. You all know the rest of the story. I have tried several times to just get away again, but she follows me, or jumps in the car. Keeping her luggage with mine is another tact. But I could drop it off at our daughters for her to pick up. Maybe then she can visit the grand daughter she denies exists. Being with me is now interfering with my job. She got on the extension phone the other day while I was talking with my boss from home, and started yelling at him, then making noise so we couldn't hear. She is affecting my work hours. My boss understands, up to a point. But says I need to do something soon or else....
Thanks for listening.....
It makes me very sad to read how several of you spend your days and nights at home with a mentally ill loved one. My ex-husband was diagnosed with delusional disorder about 15 years ago...we've been divorced for almost 10 years now.
I was young and didn't understand what was happening when the "symptoms" first began to appear in his mid to late 20's. Always somewhat of a loner and austire, the symptoms began with (his) isolation from his family, suspisions, days of morbid "pouting"/brooding (staying up late to work on ??? who knows what...hate lists and where to move to when the earth eventually shifts on its axis) and eventual outbursts if I tried to protest or defend against his delusions, which at the time, I felt were unjustified statements about my (or my friends'/family's) characters/behaviors, etc.
We were in marital therapy for about 7 years. Didn't help...he went only occasionally and then only to "keep up with what I might be telling the Doc." (Found out during the divorce proceedings that he was tape recording my phone conversations [and my daughter's] for years.)
I put up with an incredible amount of pain. I tried everything I could. He didn't trust the professionals--one who, particularly, was a terrific doctor by everyone's accounts. So, he couldn't open up and work on anything. Would never ever take any meds. Thought everyone else had the problem. In his mid 30's, his delusions began to build and build upon themselves like an elaborate crystaline structure -- (this problem never gets better by itself). More and more of his world, and the people in it, got sucked into his specific "way" of viewing (or should I say filtering out) reality. (His delusions touched our finances, our choice of home/friends, how much time we spent with family, etc.) He became very closed and secretive--explosive if challenged. I worried about violence. And, there were threats. His parents would not believe there was a problem since he appeared to function "normally" in the world of work, to some extent...they saw him as just "silent and stoic" like some men are. I still, to this day, don't know how much of the truth about his condition they really knew or even accept now.
Eventually, after going through the alphabet about 20 times, trying every way I could over the years to deal with this and arrive at some "way" of being in a marriage and raising a child with this man, I gave up and crossed that invisible line that people sometimes speak of. After that, I felt nothing for him anymore. (Took 17 years.)
I got out of this relationship--got custody of my child. I should have done this much earlier. I had to grieve over the "lost" years of my young adulthood. I look back (I'm now 47) at all the time I spent with him and how different my life was from my friends' lives. Every time I see a young mother out with her family and husband, I still have pangs. Perhaps all my effort would have been worthsomething if...if I could have helped in some way...if he was somehow better because of "my love" and "my efforts." I had to let that belief go and grieve it too. These things you never get back again. It's like having a terrible childhood, you may find some contentment and peace later on in your life (after great pain and effort), but you never get those years back.
I remember a lot of difficult moments and moments when I had big changes in my determination to stay and work with my ex-husband...one moment came when I watched a friend go through cancer...her husband was by her side most of the time...did whatever he could to support her. I thought, if I become incapacitated in any way, especially when I get older, do I really want to be "with this man?" How much could I really depend on him in a crunch? How much could I rely on him to be there too for our daughter? This really hit home with me.
I also thought about things like: how much of a "reasonably good life" am I entitled to? I've lost my better years, but I still have some years left. How is this affecting our daughter? What modeling is being done here in front of her eyes--modeling for her future relationships? I also made the decision not to have any more children with this man after I found out his diagnosis. This too has caused me many regrets and great pain.
I was, during the last 5 years of our marriage, his top target...I know only too well what you mean when you speak of the doctor being "on the hate list." Being a target of hatred/anger is tough...no matter that they are "just feelings and emotions." It wears on you and chips away at your core. Sometimes, it can even be dangerous. I didn't realize, until about 2 years out of my marriage, how much damage I had endured...how cracked and battered emotionally I really was. Because, you see, the negativity and attacks become so natural that you don't think there may be another way to live. Those of you who are still in these relationships and who are seeking ways to work it out, are to be commended. No one can tell you what to do here. You have to decide. However, when I read the e-mails to this forum, so much of the content was about the "mentally ill individual" and what to do to help them...I just thought you might want to hear a little bit/think a little bit about yourselves and what you're going through too...how it may eventually play out and what you're missing now. Good luck to you all.
I often do...late at night...still pray for a "cure."
Thanks so much for taking the time to tell your story. It really does help hearing the story of someone who has been there.
can really relate to your post.
I have gone thru all the same. There was a lot of anger directed at me for a long time. All because I could not help her find those responsible for our downfall. I was the husband who could not protect the family. Our daughter grew up with this but at 14 she knows what is going on and she is handling it well, from what I can tell.
We are now in the process of seperation. I don't really know what will happen to her and she does not either. At this point I don't care because I'm sick of all my family and freinds saying "hang in there"
in regard to your last paragraph, "It wears on you and chips away at your core.
Sometimes, it can even be dangerous. I didn't realize, until about 2 years out
of my marriage, how much damage I had endured...how cracked and battered
emotionally I really was. Because, you see, the negativity and attacks become so
natural that you don't think there may be another way to live."
I had a psychologist I was talking to a few years ago tell me that the tolerance for unacceptable behavior, abuse, etc grows with more experience at it. This is not a good thing because it doesn't change anything for the better. The threshold of pain gets higher and higher each day until I am amazed at what I have put up with. When I think back to the time she said that to me, I remember reponding, no, I think I've reached the limit. Several years later, here I am still promising myself (and all of you) I will do the right thing for myself.
Should I be commended for being strong, like a person who may take care of their dying spouse. No way - some people say it's the same, but it's really different. Feeding and caring for someone dying of cancer may be tiresome, but I don't think it beats you down into a different type of person.
My DD wife does write a lot in journals. I have not gone out of my way to read any of it unless she says she wants me to. Last week she did leave a page open on my chair. I took a peek and was surprised.
She wrote, "...now they are working on him, my husband. Poor guy doesn't realise he is being sucked in by them and victimized. I don't know how to protect him. I wish he would not watch TV and internet so often. That's how they are getting to him..." or to that effect.
She may be right - I am the crazy one....
Thanks for sharing BP
I just found this site, as my mother was recently diagnosed with DD at a local University hospital. You are amazing. I can't put up with it, especially since I've been listening to the same story for the past 20 years of my life. I am now 30. I would just like to acknowledge you for being so supportive of your wife and sticking with her.
Best of luck.
you responding to me BSC or HAB? HAB hasn't posted here for a while.
If you are talking to me, the sticking with her part is only temporary as you can read in my other posts. I am not looking for kudos for being a nice guy. I am looking for the courage to completely change my life. Many people on this forum have done so, and justifiably so.
Be glad that your mother has been "officially" diagnosed. You posted on another thread that it is caused by a physical condition. Is it operable or medically treatable? You have lived with this 20 years. You're doing pretty well yourself. But you can't divorce your mother. I hope she gets the help she needs so you can both live in peace.
bsc wrote:Fine, but now also a phone call message from her telling me to rent an apartment in Chic for us to live together. Also she wants her car back that I have been driving, and a lot of other "demands" about how its going to be. Should I be letting the crazy people run the asylum. Maybe now is the time to make my get away. But the logistics are very difficult because she will probably follow me. I f we do make a temp move to an apartment (we have done this a number of times), I need her physical help. How do I get rid of her when she starts complaining about the problems and people in her new surroundings? I will have nowhere to run. I think I need to talk to a lawyer.
If you decide to live with this person, just don't have any children with her. You guys will seriously f**k up that kid. What's the matter with you? This woman is a serious control freak and you obviously have a lot of issues with trusting men.
Give her car back and say goodbye. Two crazy people won't make each other sane.
This woman is bad news and is only going to ruin the rest of your life. She's a nut, plain and simple.
Drop the battered wife syndrome $#%^, too. She won't follow you... in fact, she'll sink her claws into some other poor shmuck after you leave her. Have a restraining order placed on her, if you are scared.
We've all dated crazy people. They are not capable of sustaining a healthy relationship with others.Smart people get these people out of their lives, and stupid/weak people marry them.
Apparently you haven't been reading enough of my posts. I have been married
to her for 25 years. The kids are grown and on their own.
But you are right. If I could have forseen this 25 years ago, I would have run very fast in the other direction.
Guest, only weak & stupid people marry crazies? DD is a disorder that comes on
typically in middle age. I'd been married 15 years when my husband first
evidenced psychosis (believing I'd given him colon cancer by putting glass in
his food). But that went away, we chocked it up to stress and didn't give it
another thought for over 10 years, when his delusions took over our lives. Then
I knew he was sick, and after 25 years together, I meant that "sickness and
health" vow, and I believed this was treatable, he'd see a psychiatrist & get
medication, and we could live our lives again. You cannot imagine what it is
like to see the person you've loved all your adult life fall into maddness and
be helpless to stop it.
Name calling is very childish and never justified, but in this case it is also ignorant and cruel.
Thank you, Faithful, for properly responding to Guest. When I wrote my response I was in a hurry and didn't even realise I (we) had been insulted by someone who apparently doesn't know what they are talking about.
is a quick update for anyone who has been following my "adventures in
Last week was, again, a bad weekend. Seems to be more commonplace, and worse. Since a 3 day weekend (and her birthday on the holiday), I decided it was time to put in the new back door we bought 8 months ago and she has been nagging me to do. The existing one was a temporary ( 2 years) interior door made of "cardboard and a little wood". One of her rampages broke the original on a cold January day. Only had time too throw together the temp.
Started Sunday morn so I should have been done by sunset for even the worst of luck. I needed to have the next day free to celebrate her birthday. They have always been important to her. I shouldn't really care under the circumstances.
The 50+ year old house did not have the standard pre-hung doors available today. The new one would have to be shoehorned in. We ripped out the inner and outer trim, actually working together for a change. When everything was apart, we did a trial fit. Too tall. I went out to the store to get some shim stock. She decided to remove the original threshold which I warned her not to do. When I got back from the store, WW3 erupted. To make a long story shorter, her behavior continued to undermine my every effort to complete the project. In the dark, we finally got it hung. There were some problems caused by her insisting she put the outside trim in before the door frame. When she heard the neighbors voices in their backyard, she yelled and swore at them. She was starting to get violent to the point that the new door was getting some damage. I walked out and drove off several times. I would never have come back, but I couldn't leave her with the door unsecured. By 10-11 that night we finally settled down.
Next day, her birthday, we had to go out first thing and buy a lockset. She actually picked one out within 5 minutes. Went back home to install, which she did, good job. Then she wanted to alter how the door was mounted. Complained that daylight showed through where we hadn't yet finished the inner trim. Said cameras could see through, or they could pipe gas or ether into the house. I told her that the trim job was next weeks project, lets start her birthday celebration. She threw another tantrum insisting that I finish it right now. I said the stores were closing and couldn't get the material. She went berserk. I grabbed my stuff and left in my car. I went to visit our daughter to explain what happened and on moms birthday yet. She wasn't surprised. I slept that night at a nearby motel. Drove to the big city for work next morning. Talked with my inlaws about their daughter. Again they agreed to support me in what ever I had to do.
I purposely did not respond to any of the phone calls my wife left on my cell phone. 24 hours later I did call to tell her I was OK and not to worry, I was at work. Wednesday she called to tel me she was taking a trip in the rental car i was hoping to turn in. Didn't say where she was going. About 6 hours later she calls to tell me she is going to visit her parents on the East coast. About 500 miles from home. I am 250 miles from home but in the opposite direction (west).
By now it is 10 or 11 at night. I estimate she will get their about 3 in the morning. I asked if they knew she was coming - no, I considered warning them. She was not welcome there. My father in law told her she is welcome back when she gets help for her mental problems. I felt terrible for her although I agreed with him. Before the rejection, she was so excited to be driving there by herself to visit them without me (a rarity). I called him up after I heard about this, to imply it was cruel. He said someone had to play bad cop. If I wasn't going to do it, he was. Of course, he is right. But thinking about her is still from the love her or pity her viewpoint.
She did at least spend about a half hour talking with them face to face, but outside their house. They said they loved each other, hugged and kissed, then sent her home.
One of the main reasons she wanted to see them is because she thinks there is something wrong with them. She is concerned for their health and welfare.She can't understand why they keep insisting she get help when it is obvious to her that they need the help - me too for that matter.
Of course she didn't go home. She decided to make an adventure out of it. Spent last night in Harrisburg PA. Drove to Philly today. Wanted me to join her there. She can't understand why I can't drive 800 miles in a few hours.
I am going back home now. If and when she gets there, we will hug and kiss. She will tell me what a horrible trip it was. I will say, you shouldn't have gone in the first place. A fight will ensue. I will have to probably run away again before the weekend is over.
There are many more details but I am saving those for my book.
I honestly don't know why you keep putting yourself through this.
Listen closely gang - today was D-day. I am actually typing this from my house,
not from work. Why??
Because my DD wife is now in the psych ward at the local hospital. She followed me out to the highway when I left for work, to the big city. She came along side my car to yell that she didn't have her cell phone. I yelled for her to go back home. She kept following. I pulled into an Arbys, parked , and said, let's have breakfast. We went in, she wasn't hungary and started giving the help a hard time as usual. I got a sandwich and coffee, she a roll and water. Went out to my car. Kissed her goodbye and got in. She wedged herself into my side between door and instrument panel. I kept yeling that I was leaving for work and for her to go back home. This argument went on for about half hour. I was then the one getting violent trying to push her away from the car. Someone in the restaurant saw this and called the local police. They asked her if she were ok since it loked like me being a wife beater. I told them my wife was mentally ill and I was trying to leave for work. She was trying to stop me.
Eventually they held her a litle so I could get away. About 2 miles down the highway she came up in my rear view mirror, honking and looking irrate. I kept driving but called my fatherinlaw. He said if she is going to follow you, turn around and let her follow you to the hospital. I thought about it for another 5 miles. I called my boss, who knew of the situation with her. He said do what you have to do, get it over with.
I turned around headed back to town. Looking at her in the mirror she did look very puzzled as I passed the streets I would normally turn down to go home. I drove staright to the hospital. Turned into the ER entrance. Ran in the door and tried to tell my story in a big hurry to a security guard standing at the desk.
My wife ran up behind me saying that I had alzheimers and was very upset, had a history of high BP, stroke, etc. hey wanted to make me the patient at her urging. She was very persuasive. I let them do a BP and temp check on me under protest. I wasn't sure who they were believing at that moment. She acted like the doting, loving wife, concerned for her husbands health. Great act.
Then they took me into another room, dor closed, to talk to a nurse. As I tried to get my story out to her, I heard a scuffle outside the door. My wife was trying to come in with 3 security guards behind her. She kicked one in the groin. and was swinging at the others. It took 3 men and 2 women to get her down on the ground and under control. They put her in restraints on a bed. They went to get a doctor who talked to me for a while. I explained the story. He said he would try to get her admitted without her signiture. She yelled for a lawyer. She was going to sue everybody.
They did give her a shot of Zyprexia. It did not seem to calm her down. About an hour later she broke one hand free of the straps, and was working on the other when a guard noticed and called for help again.
Long story shorter, they finally got her up to the psych ward. I waited while they settled her in. They let me in to see her for 5 minutes. She really hates me now. She says, what kind of husband am I who would let this happen to his wife, etc etc. I try not to feel too guilty.
I don't think 3 days is going to help much. Probably see the dr tomorrow. I hope i get the chance to talk to him first. I did tel my story to the psych nurse who said she would relay it to him.
What happens next I don't know. My inlaws said good, you did the right thing. If she is out in 3 days, she will get me. I am going to visit tonight for a short time.
need for guilt, you did exactly the right thing. Now it is up to her to comply
with treatment. And now she will have a record of "being a danger to herself or
others" making it easier for police to intervene if she acts up again.
I'd use your 72 hours to get any of your things together that you would want if you did move out into a convenient safe place. I doubt whether they would release her if she is really out to get you, but if they do, you need to be prepared to move quickly if she again gets irrational/violent again.
But let's hope this is the bottom she had to hit and that she gets good doctors to help her, and maybe somewhere in there the woman you married will be found and on the road back to reality.
Thanks for the encouragement. I went to see her and bring her dome stuff. The
usual beligerent attitude prevailed. The Zyprexa did little good except to make
her a little sleepy. The Dr will see her in the morning. In the mean time she
used her phone privileges to contact attorneys to spring her. wants me to help
get her out. Ha!
I sure hope the psych nurse I told my story to gets it across to the Dr. After the violence she showed, I would think they would keep her the full 3 days. Hopefully longer. Since it takes so long for these meds to work, how can one hope for good results in such a limited time. She was quite concerned about the bruises on her wrists and arms due to the struggle and resraint straps. Wants to sue the hospital.
Well tomorrow is another day... going to get some sleep.
bsc, I feel for you. I have been there, and not just with my husband but his
brother, who is currently in a sanitarium after 20 years of fighting all this.
The Zyprexa does not immediately help, unfortunately, and it is hard to convince
them to take it when they're out on their own after only 3 days. If you have a
good hospital, and better, a good Dr., they will follow up and she will have to
check in (or be assigned to someone who will make regular home visits) often.
Therapy, suprisingly, is the best medicine, but likely it takes the medication
settling in before she would listen to any reason whatsoever.
I am so sorry that you're going through what you are, but still hopeful that this is the start of a better life for you & your wife. Keep in close contact with the team that is caring for her. They cannot share info with you (though you'll be surprised) but any info from you is invaluable to them. Keep a notebook and jot down everything that comes to mind today, as I'm sure your mind is swimming, and turn it over to them tomorrow morning. Every little detail is important. My thoughts are with you! And yah, like faithful said, get some things together & a safe place to go to, just in case.
got back from the visitation with my wife. She said the diagnosis was Bipolar.
Did they miss something? You all know the symptoms I have been describing in the
last 150+ posts. I know that Bipolar covers a lot of things, but I don't
remember delusions or hallucinations, voices, etc being in there. The manic part
of bipolar absolutely, very little depression.
She did say they gave her 2 pills, and will give her 1 more before bed. She doesn't know what it is. The main point of our 1 hour conversation is that she says she doen't belong there and wants out ASAP. Went to a number of group therapy sessions which was interesting to her, but didn't understand the point about how they related to her problems.
Watching her facial expressions, she went from anger (but didn't say anything angry), to, but how are you feeling (to me), are you going to be OK (as if I were sick).
I called this morning to talk to the psych nurse I talked to yesterday (only name i remember, also she gave me some NAMI info, she is a facilitator in local chapter). I was put on hold a few minutes, then my wife comes on the phone cheerfully, wondering why I called. I told her I called for the nurse. My wife said she was right there, do I want to talk to her. I told her to tel her I would call back later. Later she wasn't on duty.
I guess I am going to have to be more agressive in getting info.
waited most of the day for the Dr to call me back. He never did. His office said
he will be in tomorrow from 1 to 4. If they release her tomorrow, it will be
around that time or maybe earlier. When i visited her and talked to her on the
phone, she seemed concerned that she will never get out and was wondering if
they had to hold to the 72 hours. Wanted me, again, to find her a lawyer. I told
her when the Dr felt she was ready, he would release her, and I had no control
over it. I wish I did, to at least keep her through the weekend.
She said she felt she was getting worse in there. Everyone was very nice to her, the fod was good, talking to evryone there was interesting, but she missed the freedom of coming and going, and didn't belong in jail. I sure hope she doesn't talk her way out, or leave by AMA (against medical advice). Our youngest daughter did that when she was in there a few years ago. A friend reported that she was threatening suicide after breaking up with a boyfriend. My wife remembers that.
My inlaws talked to my wife on the phone this evening. Called to tell me she sounds worse and I better do something. They have been my allies in this venture but are now putting pressure on me. My wife told me of this conversation when she called to say goodnight. She said, my parents are still acting strange.
She said she has been given several differnt meds and they have affected her "creativity". She felt when she came back from her "trip" she was ready to write again, but now her brain is not functioning. Of course, it wasn't before the meds. But her version isn't real.
Well, I am rambling here. Just confused and wondering if what has taken me a few years to get up the courage to do will make any difference in the long run....
Another visitation - 5 days in the hospital now. I see little change in her from
before she went in. Dr still hasn't called. I left my phone number with 4 -5
different people now.
While visiting we got into the beginnings of the usual argument about what happenened to her "that night" 3 - 4 years ago, when she got the injections that started this. The main delusion is still running rampant in her head.
She feels she is being punished by them keeping her. She says she feels she is doing and saying the right things, like being a "good girl" so she can leave. Maybe tomorrow is the day. I do need to go to work next week, out of town as usual. I hate to leave her there with no one to visit her.
On the other hand, I don't want her home if the whole hospital thing hasn't changed anything.
I am confused...I got my wish, but so far it is empty.
finally got back to work. I tried to get on the forums but they were down. Now
You will note that I was posting actively while my wife was in the hospital. She got out last Monday, 6/13. She almost caught me that night reading some posts. So, I could not had access for over a week.
In a nutshell, this whole hospital episode was a waste of time, money, emotions, etc. I saw little change in her during my evening visits. All she talked about was me getting her out, that there was nothing wrong with her. I know it takes time for the meds to work, but I guess I was expecting to see at least a slight change in the right direction after 5 - 6 days. I got my oldest daughter to visit her mother with me on the weekend. She was surprised her mother was as bad as she was with such a bad attitude toward everyone and everything.
After she came home, I stayed home from work for the rest of last week. When the Dr discharged her, he implied I would need to take care of her to make sure she took her meds. Not that I felt obligated because the Dr said to, but I thought I ought to give it every chance of succeeding. So, the first few days we fought about her taking her pills. I can't physically force her to do it. I don't think she took very many, if at all. By the week end I realised that it's a losing battle.
She says that the changes in her are for the better, in the past few years. That the hyper-manic mode (now she names them) has made her more creative and given her more energy. She asks why should she take meds that will make her like a zombie and take away her "special super powers", that she is quite proud of. When I tell her it is having a very bad effect on other people, like me, her parents, the kids, etc., she says, too bad, you are all jealous that I was chosen to be special (delusions of grandeur). Sometime I think she is kidding, it is so ridiculous.
The Dr explained that the psychotic symptoms, delusions, paranoia, etc. are the extreme of the manic part of bipolar. I am not sure I agree with his diagnoses, since I don't see the depression part of it (maybe 10 - 12 years ago). In any case, he prescribed Depakote to stabilize her swings, and Seroquel as an anti-psychotic.
Two seeming improvements: she has not become physically abusive, but still very bad verbally, and it's all out in the open and we can talk about it. Everytime she says something paranoid I remind her that she claims she is not paranoid. We do get into heated shouting matches, but that is the same as before.
She will not let me out of her sight, afraid I will run away again. In order to get to work I had to take her with me. Then I have to listen to her complain about the motel room, and getting lost around the big city. She calls me on the cell phone to help her navigate, in the middle of meetings. Last night we went to a jazz concert in a park. She accused me, later, of flirting with the female singer. The extreme jealousy syndrome is coming back. Haven't seen that in quite a while. She talks about the affairs I must be having while out of her sight. That, she says, gives her the right to do the same. This is now going in a new direction.
Well, I am very disappointed since I have been looking forward to the day she would be on meds and become normal. My expectations are too high. Maybe divorce will be the solution.
When my husband was in
treatment and on his meds, I
could deal with him, but he certainly wasn't "normal", as in, like he was before
he got DD. I remember well the sinking feeling I had when the doctor told me
that this might be as
good as it gets - essentially,
that he would never trust me, always think the worst of me, but with treatment he
wouldn't overtly call me names, yell at me, and threaten divorce regularly.
After a year on my own, I now see his refusal of treatment as the best thing for me. At least I felt I could leave with a clear conscience. I'm sure I would have stayed if he stayed in treatment, and been miserable.
I'm now better off without him for certain, but it will be a year next Tuesday since I filled for divorce, and an end is no where in sight - my husband's DD is making resolution impossible it seems. But my days are quiet, I haven't cried once since I left, in short, I'm ok.
Have you told your wife you are considering divorce? With me, it got real clear:
I could not continue to live with his DD personality (accusations, mistrust, tantrums, etc.)
Either he stayed in treatment, or I would leave.
He didn't, so I did.
And he still doesn't know why I left.
above was me, faithful, but you knew that....
original plan got short circuited. I was going to say (for years), go get help
or I am leaving. Since the "help" was forced to a head, I can now say the same
thing as you said, stay with the program or I am out of here. But knowing from
your, and other forum posters experience, that even with "help" the solution may
not be livable, I need to go anyway. Yes, I understand the guilt I could feel if
she "tried hard" and I still left. But I can foresee the outcome.
No, I haven't made that threat yet. I have not mentioned divorce, but she brings it up all the time. She gets in a self deprecating mood, where she will say, you deserve better, I am not a good wife, etc. She is right.) Of course I make nice and tell her she is wrong. Why do I do that? But at that time she tells me who I should have married and that maybe we ought to split.
I could just follow through on one of those sessions and agree with her, and say bye. But I can't, but I should. After the last few weeks the handwriting on the wall is clearer. We will never be happy together again. If she were to be normal again, I think at this point we are still worlds apart. I am not sure what normal would be for her, or me for that matter....
the hospital bill the other day. Almost $7000 for 7 days. And no satisfaction. I
think the insurance company picks up 80% but the loving wife tore up the letter
from the insurance company so I don't know what happened.
Well, she is with me again this week, now 3 weeks in a row. And with long weekends, she is glued at the hip. Even at home she won't let me out of her sight. If I leave the room for more than a minute, she calls out to make sure I am still there.
Thursday is our 25th anniversary. I wanted to keep her home so I could have some breathing room. Told her I would be back Wed night so we could celebrate Thurs. No, she had to come with me and start trouble. Yells at the motel people, drives like a maniac (appropriately - i always wondered where that expression comes from), wants me to immediately resign my job so we don't have to commute 500 miles a week. Almost kidnapped me from work on the pretense of eating lunch together in the car, until I threatened to jump out of a moving car. She has done the same to me and reminded me of it. She says now I am at her level because of these "friends" of mine that I am listening to.
I did call the Dr. He said nothing he can do unless I can get her into his office or back to the hospital, if she won't take the meds.
Anniversary seems like a travesty. Should have been divorced a few years ago. I know she will not be happy with anything we do, and I will get blamed for it. I cannot even get her opinion since it changes second by second. I hope I get home in one piece.
guess you're a glutton for punishment, since you haven't left or took a real
stand yet. I was really hoping you would've made a more solid move by now,
considering her stint in the hospital didn't help.
Time for more drastic measures...or, sh-t or get off the pot.
Sorry I'm being so blunt, but after reading your many posts, your time to up and leave her has long past so you're letting her get away with it while you remain miserable. I still wish you the best, but the way you're going, it doesn't seem like you're interested in anything but complaining about her.
you for your concern, Concerned Daughter.
You are absolutely right, but implementing the get away is not easy. You may think, OK, this is not working out, I am going, goodbye. But after accumulating 25 years of stuff, history, etc. the logistics are very difficult. And I have to admit I am a little fearful of her. She can be pretty violent and do distructive things. And there is nothing to stop her from following me to work 250 miles away and causing trouble there. She already embarasses me in many places. I guess I could walk around with a warning sign saying, "ignore what ever my wife says or does, she is mentally ill".
I should have been gone a long time ago. But even some posters on this board have had a similar problem actually, physically leaving, and making it stick.
Thanks again for your concern...
BSC-well I left and didn't make it stick. But I can tell you once you decide to leave all your excuses you have now not to leave won't matter and you will just do it. I had a million excuses like you not to leave, but then one day I had to do it and I did. It wasn't as hard as I thought, given that my best friend helped me tremendously. But then again I was stupid enough to go back and what do I get for it? Nothing but more accusations, I can say it has been better, but the days/times he snaps about something I feel like I am in that box all over again. He doesn't admit he is DD, but does admit some of the stuff he does/says is "not right". I can say he is better than before, but like I said, it feels like a rubber band sometimes when he gets into it even for a short period of time. Good luck to you, you can complain all you want, it is fine with me anyway. But for yourself and your own sanity I think it would be best if you left for a long while too. It helps to see what the "normal" people in this world don't have to deal with.
Thanks guest2634. Sounds like you are still back, but nearing the door.
Having help from a friend who understands would be wonderful. Unfortunately I have no friends who are in a position to help. Only have work aquaintences. My inlaws, who support me, can't help from 500 miles away. My 2 daughters would like to help but can't stand to be around their mother.
I am on my own. I could use a place to be that she can't find, for a while. But I also have to be at work. She can haunt me there and at the motels I stay at.
A total runaway from her, work, and everything is probably what I need. Then there is the money issue. I have plenty of excuses to use up before I can go.
Have you thought of getting a restraining order? Seems you have plenty of
grounds, with police reports & such. They are not difficult, and usually courts
or BAR associations have clinics to help (common with domestic violence cases),
or any family law lawyer could do it. Generally you first get a temporary order
(TRO), so you can move & work & if she shows up at your residence or workplace
you can have her arrested. A court hearing then makes it permanent (especially
if she violates the TRO). In CA, a request for a TRO is on the first page of the
dissolution papers, so you can file for divorce and a TRO at the same time.
I stayed for a long time because leaving after 30 years seemed impossible, and I had NEVER been single or self-supporting, but once broken down into steps, it isn't so overwhelming.
Okay BSC, here is what I did: I decided to leave and got money out of our account, but left some for him to be fair. If you really really NEEDED to leave you will figure out how to get the money you need, believe me. So after that, I got a apartment, then a restaining order then went back with the police and got some of my stuff from the house. The main two reasons I needed my friend was because A) she helped me move my stuff B) simple emotional support. If you can get someone to help you move your stuff, then you can call your family/friends for your emotional support. I know what you are going through, believe me. I had a million excuses too, but when he started seriously threatening me like he was going to do something to get our daughter taken away, well then I had to go. My husband was on drugs every time he was DD, though, he admitted that after we "made up". He was taking several different things, but even small things like those "yellow jacket" pills that wake you up from the truck stops would make him DD. So that is in part why I went back, he stopped taking everything and realized it. He is better, but you know sometimes when you get a glimpse of how it used to be you feel like you are in it all over again. BSC--have you ever been in a situation where you feel alone where she can't reach you or bother you? Don't you feel better when it is like that? My husband ended up in the hospital for about a week and I felt at peace, no one to drive me nuts anymore, you know....and when I moved out, I felt emotionally unattached like no matter what he said, I wasn't going to prove anything or even try to make him happy anymore. That is a good feeling that we all are entitiled to. You should try it for your own peace of mind.
you both Faithul and Guest.
Faithful - with your legal background, you are looking at it from a practical perspective, and you are right. A TRO (a new acronym for me) would me the way to go. I would have to find out if getting it one state is good in another state. I travel amongst 3 states. I guess when push comes to shove (and there will be some of that), I will have to do that, and keep myself emotionless like I did with the hospital misadventure.
Guest - yes I do feel better when I am away from her, a sense of calm and relief, until my cell phone buzzes or she calls on my work phone which I usually have to answer.
I have that feeling today as I sit and type this. For the first time in 4 weeks, I managed to break away from the house without her. I had to waste several hours convincing her and then removing her suitcase and stuff from my car, with her yelling and screaming. I gave her a solid, sincere hug and kiss, and told her I had to go to work without her. She was costing me too much money to go out to eat every night. I usually eat cheap, alone. Plus she wants to stay in a better hotel then we can afford. I think, at her suggestion, that a compromise might be she come with me every other week, instead of every week.
Like you, I did have that good feeling when she was in the hospital a week. Unfortunately they give too many phone privileges. Lucky only one hour visiting on week days. But when I was home alone in my own house, I felt great.
That feeling could be a good motivator to go...someday soon.
Did the 25th anniversary thing last Thurs. It was terrible because she was expecting so much (as most women would). Since I really thought she and I would be talking divorce, I planned nothing and bought her nothing, not even a card. In fact, the last several anniversarys were like that. Each year I really thought we wouldn't be together. Her disappointment was quite a trigger for her acting out. She blamed all of "them" for trying to break us up. We did do some shopping for new wedding bands, but luckily we couldn't find any we liked.
You may ask why I am leading her on. The answer is, my safety. The other answer is, sometimes the real "her" breaks through and my old feelings take over, and the stupid thoughts come into my head that maybe we can work this out, even though I know in 15 minutes she will be back to DD. Sometimes I think the delusions are contagious
Yes the delusions can be contagious, more like just the hyper type of life, that feeling that you wrote down that you "have to answer her" when she calls. But you DON'T!! You don't HAVE TO answer the phone or answer her at all. We all feel compelled to defend ourselves, right, but why should we? Don't fall into that trap that all of us do....I quit answering most of the questions and just tell him to slow down, that is when he stops thinks a little and realizes that what he is asking is kind of ridiculous. I can't say that she will realize that she is being ridiculous, but my point is, answering and putting up with it just lets them think it is okay and fine behaviour to do that. At least if you are going to stay with her, you can at least refuse to acknoledge the craziness and just not answer, not let her come with you, etc....Then once you are used to not letting her get to you, you will have more peace as well. I used to think I could only get peace if he couldn't call me or couldn't see met, etc....but I realize now it is all in my mind and what I am willing to let him do to ruin my inner peace. Again, my husband is better now, but there were times when I managed to just forget his accusations and go have a good day when he was totally pissed off at me, I would just leave and do something that made me happy and totally forget about him, leave my phone off and be at peace!! But you really need to do this on a normal basis now....I hope you do this for yourself, it seems as if you have wasted a lot of time and energy into trying to help her and convince her, life is too short for all that craziness. And she may never even realize how much you really have went through just because you love her. Better to cut your losses and get out now...
One more thing, BSC....I know you know this, but think on it a little....What would a "normal" person, someone who doesn't know she has DD and hasn't been putting up with it as long as you have, do in the situations she puts you in (where she won't let you leave without her, etc...)? Ask yourself that everytime she does something DD, then do exactly what you think the normal person would do. And that may be to leave or whatever, but think about it.....We are just as much at fault here for putting up with it for too long!! So do what a "normal" person would do in your "abnormal" situation and see where that leads you.
Some time back we had a discussion here on enabling. That is certainly what I
have been doing. By allowing her behavior to continue,
I am reinforcing it as allowable behavior. But that psychology may apply to
normal people, not to psychotic ones.
You are right, that she will never know, or understand how much I love her because of what I 've put up with. I am not looking for martyrdom. I am not looking for applause. We get caught up in applying normal psychology as if trying to influence behavior by what we say or do. Will not work for these people.
Your other point about reacting like a "normal" person is well taken. The end result would be leaving her. Many times I've said to myself, any normal guy would have out of here years ago. Apparently I am not normal...
Yes it is enabling and yes I meant that a normal person would leave....I am not a "normal" person either though, so I was not trying to get down on you.....it is very very hard dealing with it. What do your kids think? They must think you should leave her too? I read before that they don't talk to her much and she doesn't acknoledge one of her grand children? What is their advice for you?
daughters felt their mother is exactly what she is even before I brought it to
their attention. Looking back, as they were being raised, they claim they could
see it then. Of course, that's not fair because most to all kids feel there is
something wrong with their parents.
They feel that I would be justified in leaving her, as do her parents (my inlaws). But they are afraid they will have to get more involved with her to "take care of her" if I am not around. Both girls are a little selfish in that sense, and always point out they have a life of their own and don't have time for us. They have been saying this long before the DD became evident.
It surprised me that last week, when my wife was not with me, she went to visit the younger one at work/school where she hangs out. When I asked how they got along, what did she have to say, etc, my wife disclosed little to me except "girl talk". I called my daughter to get more details, she hasn't called me back.
The older daughter's, daughter, our (only) grandchild has been forgotten by my wife. Last November, at my urging, my wife went to the hospital. Took pics, posed for pics, etc. But was not very enthusiastic. A week later when all were home, we went over to visit, and see the baby again. My wife acted funny but went along with everything. She did keep saying under breath to me that the baby is fake. Why did they bring this beautiful, adorable baby into this plot to drive her crazy? Before last x’mas my inlaws visited along with daughter and baby. They wanted to take 4 generation pics. Again, my wife went along but reluctantly. She never brings the baby up, like she forgot it existed. Not many grandmothers are going to act that way unless they are crazy.
I believe the problem is our son-in-law. My wife and he do not get along. He and my daughter came close to breaking up several times within the first 5 years of marriage. My wife feels they should have broken up because my daughter was sort of railroaded into marrying him. She kept postponing the wedding because she wasn't sure. His mother died, so she felt "obligated" to marry him. One of their differences was that he wanted no more kids, had 2 from previous marriage.
Since the baby my daughter, says she is now very happy. I know she is happy with the baby, but with him??? I think she is kidding herself. However, I mind my own business.
My wife, thinking she is very perceptive of her daughters feelings, I think is rejecting the baby because it is half "his". Also, realizing that they are less likely to break up now. That is my only explanation of it. She says the baby is part of the plot, must have been borrowed, asks who it really belongs to.
stayed for a long time because I did not want to burden my kids or in-laws with
caring for my husband after I left. My husband got himself a new girlfriend to
take care of him within a few months of my leaving - I think there are a lot
more women out there ready to take care of, or even "fix" broken men than there
are men willing to take on broken women (there is some truth to "all the good
ones are married or gay" when it comes to men). The kids & in-laws do worry
about what happens when the girlfriend kicks him out, we all believe that is
inevitable, but he has acted so rotten since the split that now no one really
cares about what happens to him. All of my kids and in-laws have said I was
right to leave and am better off without him. Our son has nothing to do with his
father. Our daughters reluctantly saw him on father's day, then told me, "so now
we don't have to see him until December (Xmas)". My husband's DD is much more
controlled I think than your wife's - other than a general paranoia, his
delusions are all about me, so as long as he doesn't discuss me, he seems pretty
About the grandchild - my husband has shown no interest in ours, but my daughter took the baby to see him on father's day. I told her her dad must have been happy to see the baby (had not seen him since Xmas) and she replied, "more like happy to see the baby so he can tell people he's happy to see the baby." Since the DD took hold, he seems to have no real feelings at all, but realizes he is supposed to, so he is acting all the time.
Hurray - second week in a row I went to work in the big city without her. I
"promised" her that next week she could come along if she wanted.
As for family, my wife wants to have a big belated anniversary party to bring together the kids, her parents, and who else I don't know. Perhaps the people in her mind. She keeps planning it out on paper, the menu, the decorations, keeps adding places to sit outside in our new patio. She wants to combine it with a belated 50th anniversary for her parents. They have said, under the circumstances, don't worry about it, they don't need to celebrate. But my wife feels very guilty about missing it.
Men shortage, women abundance. Yes I was aware of it back when I was between wifes over 25 years ago. I am not sure I really had that many choices. But I am still trying to figure out what I did wrong back then. I sure knew how to pick 'em...ya right.
My wife’s behavior is getting worse in public. She does say she is sorry for embarassing me. But then says, that so and so did this or that, or said this or that, which is always a paranoid reaction to something that never happened, or she exagerated, or misinterpreted. When she gets funny looks for something she says to a waitress, she says, see, they don't like me here, but they love you. She has been very jealous of me for years...strange.
Just got interupted for an hour by you know who on the phone. The usual screaming session. I continue to break the rule about confrontation that started this thread. She continues to say she is not paranoid in the same breath she complains about people breaking into the house and stealing or bringing back her stuff. Then accuses me of being a terrible husband for allowing my "friends" to do this to her. She continues to insist that I don't work where I say I am, and for whom, yet drops me off and picks me up there when she is with me.
I came very close to saying FU, we're thru, several times in the phone call. What stops me when she asks, do you you really want to continue this marriage? What do I think I can salvage? To prove to her that the "they", she insists are trying to break us up, do not exist. And by staying together, I am showing her that there is nobody trying to do that, see, we are not broken up.
I gotta go...
Ahhhh BSC.....not all children think there is something wrong with their
parents. I didn't anyway...So I think that you have to do what is best for you
regardless of how your kids think (that they are scared of handling some of the
burden). Your kids, in my opinion, should be handling some of the burden anway.
Besides, that is what "tough love" is all about, right? That you have to let
them go to make them see that they will fall on their face without
everyone....sounds harsh, but true, huh? Or when they hit rock bottom they will
finally be able to start climbing back up? I think that is true, it just hurts
like hell to watch your loved one do that to themselves, but sometimes it is
very necessary. Good luck to you, don't let her ruin your peace and just
remember that you don't have to prove anything or answer anything if YOU don't
want to. It won't really matter anyway and we both know that!!
On my end, I am doing better, my husband is less and less DD since he has been off meds. Here and there he has very small comments or questions, but as long as I handle them calmly it is fine. I have been able to do more as well which is good for me. I was scared to go anywhere by myself before, but now I just ask or tell him where I'm going and he doesn't really care too much as he trusts me. This is a good feeling again! We have our normal spats as husband and wife, but things have been good. I wish you had the same with your wife.....
That is interesting that he is doing better off meds. It is good that he is
regaining trust in you. You don't have to feel you are in a prison. My wife
won't let me out of her sight when I am home. I can't even run to the store
without her coming along. Although for the past 2 weeks I have been in the big
city 250 miles away without her. She calls every few hours to see where I am and
what I am doing. She still thinks I am not where I say I am (part of the plot).
Sounds like improvements for you, that you can live with since you have other reasons for not leaving. I am happy for you.
My husband did great off the meds for 6 months - then he went full blown DD, practically overnight. I now think of that time as being in remission, as in cancer - the disease is still there, it's just the symptoms that are gone for a while. Even though his doctor said clearly that this was a lifelong condition and my husband would relapse, those 6 months were good enough that I just pushed the possibility of relapse out of my mind. I'll never know whether the delusions were really still there those 6 months and my husband was just able to suppress acting on them, or whether they really went away for a while, but it did give me a short while of what passed for "normal", that, when it suddenly ended, pushed me to finally decide to leave. I knew then that even if he did go back into treatment, even if the DD was controlled for some time, I would always know that it would come back, and each time would be worse, because I would just be having my hopes and dreams dashed over and over. I hope, guest, that this is not true in your case. What does your husband's doctor think?
Well it is a long story! Well his original doctor ended up being nuts himself it turns out! So mainly the thing is, is that my husband was DD when he lost sleep and did drugs (not just prescribed drugs either), so that is part of it. He is normally overly sensitive and a little paranoid, but I think that part of it is due to his bad childhood, which I can live with the day to day stuff. So he was prescribed Strattera for his ADHD by this doctor (that I referred him to, go figure) then as he was seeing this doctor more and more, the doctor convinced him more and more that the small things were not actually small things, that they were probably big things. So of course he listens to the Dr. who convinces him basically that his DD symptoms are relevent. The Dr. never even thought he was DD at all, so...So as my husband was taking this Strattera and staying up for days on end, he was getting more and more paranoid and delusional. So now he is off the meds for Strattera he is better and sleeping normal, which makes him normal again. He does think certain things that people do are "weird" but I think part of it is due to his lack of trust in general in the population. He doesn't necessarily think people are out to get him, but he does wonder if anyone is nice to him why they are. That is part of since none of his family ever does anything nice without a ulterior motive to it. But he is obssessive about somethings and has to ponder endlessely sometimes on what I think are the stupidest things, but so far I haven't had much mistrust on his jealousy or insecurity. Mainly his weird pondering....and he ponders on many things not just me, so I guess it is just his way of getting through life. Anyway, he is going to meet another doctor on the 15th and see what she has to say. He wants to do something about his ADHD but I won't let him take anything as he has taken Addoral too in the past and it has made him worse. So we'll see what this new doctor thinks and we'll just go from there. I know she won't say he is DD unless he actually brings it up and talks about it, but he thinks he was only DD on drugs, and so far that has been true, so I am not worried about the DD so much anymore, unless she gives him meds that do it all over again.
I am back. I just spent 2 weeks of hell with you know who. A week ago Monday we
were on the way to the big city where I work. Forty miles out the car quits -
her car. The one we just put in a used transmission. She was sure at that time
"they" were trying to keep her grounded by taking out her car. Well you can
imagine her on the side of the road with me while waiting for AAA. The tow
truckdriver got an earful too. The mechanic I had it towed to said he
couldn't look at it for a few days. When he did he fixed what he could but
additional engine damage would cause a big repair bill. I didn't want to put
more money into that car. She insisted that I fix it. I could but don't have the
time. We fought over that for the rest of that week, since she insisted that "my
friends" caused this to happen to her car. Actually she thinks I did something to
it because before we left I raised the hood to check the oil.
Following week I took her shopping for a "new" used car. But she was looking for one for me instead, since she deluded herself into thinking that I am now home and not going back to work anymore, so therefor e could fix her car.
We also fought about the new roof for the house - finally came to a decision on that. She wanted one that cost 3 times more then normal. Another of her delusions is that we have all this money in the bank, or soon will when the court decides in her favor against "them" in the lawsuit she wants to file.
In the mean time work contacted me and told me that I had voluntarily quit my job if I didn't show up soon. DD did not understand that. She thought I was staying home for good with her. Last night I snuck out of the house with my suitcase and headed for the big city after stopping to see my granddaughter and daughter. Gave her an update. Hadn't talked to her since the hospital fiasco.
So I am now sitting at my work desk at 4 a.m. catching up. Told her by cell phone to go rent a car. Sure hope she doesn't come here. Told her I need a break from her. More details later...
old crap - she doing the same and you doing the same: accepting her behaviour.
I'm clicking on 'stop watching this topic' now because reading post after post about you letting her walk all over you is starting to make ME ill.
Good luck to you, bsc.
Every situation is very different & I think it very important we recognize this. I didn't come to this forum until I had already left, or you all would have gotten years of my story. The couple of friends I had confided in certainly advised over and over that I leave, but it all seemed so unbelievable, even while living it, how could someone I'd loved for 30 years just become someone else? It still doesn't make sense. I finally had to just view it as one of those horrible accidents, the moment the truck ran the red light and my life was changed forever type of thing. People with small children have a very hard time - look at Alex, who lost custody to his DD wife. And a very long marriage to a DD spouse who cannot support herself and an income that won't support two households - that is a lot to overcome. The reality is that when bsc leaves, the financial strain will be tremendous (although, believe me, the emotional release way more than makes up for it, but you don't know that until the deed is done), and the burden will switch to her kids and parents, which seems unfair somehow. Truth is that we have no reasonable system for functioning mentally ill people - we can't lock them up, we can't force them into treatment - yes, it is unfair. Bsc, I'm sure you've thought of this, but how about just not going home again? Hire a lawyer & get a restraining order to keep your wife from your job site & find out what your financial options are, change your cell phone number, tell your daughter & in-laws what you are doing, find a motel or apartment your wife doesn't know about & just take each step as needed. The stuff at your house is not important, pretend the place burnt down - you'd start over, you'd make it.
Thank you faithful. When I left Sunday night, those were my intentions.
Now that it is Tues p.m. and I 've talked to her a few times, I am not sure I can follow through. She did manage to rent a car so is on the loose again. I have been leaving my cell phone off but she has been filling it up with messages. I check them from a regular phone. Crying she misses me and hopes this isn't the end of our marriage. Refering to my request that she take her meds as a joke - that I need them, not her.
I just talked to her in person. She has been driving around home and to other small towns around ours. She is now threatening to drive to the big city to be with me. The roofing job for the week has been canceled waiting for the right color material. I thought it would keep her occupied this week.
I am staying in a different motel than usual, but she knows where they all are. Going to give my inlaws a call soon. Haven't talked to them for a few months.
What do you do for a living BSC? Can't you see your life with her is getting out of control, so much out of control it is threatening your job? Look at it this way, is her illness worth your job? Notice I didn't ask is SHE worth your job, I asked is HER ILLNESS worth your job? NO it isn't so don't let her do that to you. You will just lose your job and she will still not change so what good would it do? I am also a little confused, do you two still live together right now? Well things are going fine for me my husband is doing great and just seen a new shrink. His new shrink agrees that his old one screwed him and gave him all the wrong meds, so I am happy with the new shrink and so is he. I don't think he was DD as he is off the meds and not DD at all. So good news for me. Good luck to you BSC, I don't mind hearing your issues, we all went through it and I agree you should leave, but you will in your own time.
Well here it is Thursday night already. I talked to my inlaws the other night.
They are in full support of me leaving her, at least for a while. I didn't know
but apparently my wife called them the night I left. They told her to take her
meds and go back to the Dr.
The roof project came alive again this morning. It will go on for several more days. She was besides herself worrying that she won't be able to handle it and insisted that I come home immediately to take care of business. I assured her that the contractor knew what he was doing and to stay out of their way. By tonight she felt more confident. But she is still worried that they will sneak into the house and do "something".
To go home or not to go home, that is the question. I would like to to see the house redone, but of course it will look redone for some time to come, so there is no rush. If I go home, will I be able to get back out to go to work Monday? Without her?
Questions, questions....and 18 hours to decide the answers. I could start home but go somewhere else...
Thursday night again... this is getting ridiculous.
I did go home last Friday. The roofers didn't come back out till Monday. I didn't get to work Mon or Tues. Boss is really mad. More lost pay. Roof should be done tomorrow. So should I...
Whatever you do, don't lose your
job. You won't win you any points with her or anybody else. Throw
yourself into work and it will help keep
your mind off things and give
you a let up on starting a new life.
You are lucky in one very important respect: her family is on your side. They recognize the problem and appear supportive of her taking her medication. And she's been to the doctor so it's obvious that help has been sought at some point.
But if she's turned her back on the help that's been extended to her, there's no hope for you but to cut yourself loose and let her take care of herself. The brutal truth is that this can be a very dangerous disorder, particularly for the person closest to the sufferer. But I'm stating the obvious: you know that.
On the bright side, if you lose your job it would be that much easier to move, to say, Nevada, where a 6 week residency qualifies you for a quick divorce........
'ol Faithful - always thinking of the practical side. Under the circumstances, I
may not be able to afford Vegas, but I will keep it in mind.
Well, I did go home again Friday night. All the way, while answering her phone calls about where she should meet me for dinner, I wanted to turn north and tell her I am going to eat alone again tonight. I didn't. I just kept driving, like a magnet was pulling me towards her. Yet when I met her outside the restaurant. she was the same crappy person. Acting like an idiot in public again, and crappy to me (after the big hug and kiss). Got carry out and took it home to eat. Glad she wasn't in the mood to eat out, she was already embarassing me just ordering the carry out at the bar.
Even that early into the weekend, I was wondering why I came home. Saturday morn in daylight I checked out the roof. Beautiful, good job. I was glad to see it. Now i was ready to leave again.
Sat and Sun we had some fun boating on a nearby lake. She almost seemed normal. But as usual, when the fun is over she throws a temper tantrum (both days), wanting more. Accusing me and my "cohorts" of teasing her and not following through to a conclusion - what ever that means. She is getting more demanding, selfishly. She still imagines that she is owed much money, and is not getting her share. She lately has been refering to how smart and talented she is compared to most people. That she is not going to let "them" get away with how she is being treated. She deserves better. .....right
She did threaten today to come with me. She may yet drive to the big city. Wants a big fancy trip to some fantasy place.
It's only Monday, but Thursday is coming again...time flies.
to break the couple weeks of silence. Last weekend was horrible as usual. Why do
I keep going home to put up with it?
I am thinking this week is going to be the one. I always say that. But she keeps calling and making me feel bad, and guilty. By the time Friday afternoon comes, I will be flying down the road to meet her like a moth to the flame.
I know if I don't go home this weekend she will be at my office first thing Mon morn to find me. When I left she did ask me if I was coming home Friday. As if she expects me not to. Can she really read minds? On the phone she reminds me of the things we were going to do this weekend, that I "promised". And stupid me is feeling guilty for thinking about breaking those promises. She has become far more demanding, like so much is owed to her and I am the one to supply it. Maybe this time...
Sure not much activity here. I guess DD is passe.
As for me...Ditto, ditto, ditto the above several posts.
It is a time problem, bsc. That is all.
Thursday night - driving home a day early to celebrate an occasion we have done since we knew each other. Every 10 minutes a phone call asking where we should meet. Since I was resolved that this was going to be THE weekend to put my foot down, I didn't want to commit to a time and place to meet her. At 2 hours to go, I told her I cannot take anymore of her unless she gets help, gets on meds, etc. for her mental problems. The week was getting worse. At 1 hour to go I told her I was not coming home tonight and hung up. It is Mon evening and have not talked to her since.
Friday morn - went to an attorney to discuss divorce. I told her the story. She suggested that this is the time to go to probate court and have her brought back into the hospital, forcefully if necessary. That the court could assign her (the attorney) as my wifes guardian (for a fee of course) so that my emotional weakness would not interfere with what is best for my wife, and myself. Spent the rest of Fri putting together an affidavit, and getting a judge to sign an order of detention to have the sheriff dept bring her in. They were supposed to do it Fri afternoon or evening. I was feeling very guilty and on pins and needles waiting for this to happen. When my wife continued to call me on my cell, I knew they hadn't picked her up yet. I did not answer the phone put did listen to all the messages.
Sat morn - still hadn't picked her up. I called the sheriff dept to ask what happened. Short of man power, and besides they had 5 days to do it (legally). I waited all day Sat killing time in a motel and visiting my daughter and grand daughter.
Sat night - too busy again.
Sun morn - we will get to it if we can
Sun afternoon - maybe tonight.
Sun night - they actually went out to the house but my wife was driving around looking for me since she hadn't heard from me for several days. If I had to talk to her I was afraid of what I might say and cancel the whole thing. I met a deputy on the street in front of the house and explained that she would be back in 1 to 2 hours according to her last phone message. He said he would be back. I went back to my daughters house to wait a few more hours when I would be sure it was over. Went back to the house to see a sheriff car going down the highway near my house. Drove past the house, saw she was home and called the sheriff to let them know that she is home now, please come out and get her. I was told, that because there was little activity, they let some of the deputys go home early. What, I screamed. Fri and Sat you're short of manpower because of too much activity, Sun you're short because of inactivity. I just left and headed to the big city, to work.
Mon morn - I called the attorney and told her what happened and to get into this and do something about it because my wife said plainly that she was going to meet me in the big city, to make sure I was OK. That is the last place I wanted her. Once out of the county jurisdiction I would have to start all over again. The sheriffs dept finally went into action. They came out early but my wife was out for another ride. I waited for the next message that said she was home and called the attorney who called the sheriff. Finally at about noon I got the phone call that they had brought her in for evaluation.
I don't know if it got as violent as it did last June when she was forced into the hospital. The attorney, now as her temporary guardian, will attend a hearing tomorrow where she will ask the court, to have the hospital keep her for a 30 day treatment. Even with insurance this is not going to be a cheap solution. Divorce is probably more affordable. This is my last shot.
She has not tried to contact me since this morning. Probably hates my guts for doing this to her. It's ok since I didn't answer her calls or call her back. Now she knows why. According to her parents, she did call her brother in CA using her cell phone to tell him she was in the hospital.
explain a little further about the legalities of this temp guardianship the
attorney has over my wife:
For these purposes, my wife is considered incompetant to attend to her own medical needs, since she is refusing to take meds that have been prescribed for an illness that could result in her, or someone elses, harm (like me). This guardianship, I think, does not pertain to anything else except her mental incompetance. Not her financial affairs, which falls into my area. I don't believe I have relinquished any rights. The attorney says I can call it off any time.
However, she did say that if all of this resulted in divorce anyway, that she would have to represent her as her guardian since my wife would not be competant to stand a divorce trial. Of course, if my wife took her meds and got "better", the guardianship would end, I suppose.
Faithful - what do you think??
think what you are doing is remarkable. That your wife has a documented history
of violence is working for you here, but I wonder about the legality of forcing
someone into medical treatment. Looks like at least where you live that can be
done. I've never heard of such a thing in California - we have one law that if a
person is, at the moment, a threat to himself or others, he can be held at a
psychiatric hospital for 72 hours, but if the person during those 72 hours calms
down enough to say, "just kidding" they have to be let go. Do you know if there
are timelines that must be followed? My guess is that she will have to be
evaluated within a short time, a judge will have her promise to stay on her meds
and have visits to a psychiatrist, and they will release her. Then what will you
A few days after I left my husband, he called & said he would go to a marriage counselor if I set up the appointment. I knew that the counselor would quickly refer him to a psychiatrist, because that was how he got into treatment the first time, but I just wasn't going to do that again - I'd spent 18 months with him being treated, and though it beat when he was not in treatment, it was still a lousy way to live, he never admitted to being sick, other than depression (caused, of course, by my infidelities - who wouldn't be depressed if his wife was sneaking out in the middle of the night to screw men with gigantic penises?), and continued to believe I had cheated on him, but, while on the meds, he would say I wasn't cheating at the moment. So he was thinking of me as a lying, manipulative, adulterer whether he was in treatment or not. I just saw the whole thing starting all over - more accusations that I had manipulated a whole new set of doctors into thinking he was nuts while I continued my whoring ways. So I said no to any more counselling, put it on him to either get himself into treatment voluntarily or I would file for divorce. It was a tough ultimatim, certainly not compassionate, but I'd run out of compassion after 4 years of baseless accusations and emotional abuse.
A few days ago, 16 months after filing for divorce, I finally got the word from my husband's lawyer that he'd agreed to a settlement (the same one I proposed last December) and today I put the last of the paperwork for the court in the mail, wrote him the last check to pay him off from our last remaining joint account, and now I just wait for a notice of final judgment to be mailed to me from the court and I will be divorced. Then I wait for a notice from my 401k that half the money I spent 17 years saving has been given to my husband. Then I change the beneficiary on my life insurance. And it's over.
First of all, congratulations on approaching the end of your turmoil, and new
beginnings. Actually, from what you have been posting, the new beginnings are
underway - now it will be legal. I am saying the above, a little tongue in
cheek, knowing the pain you've gone through in the past few years. But you have
accepted what can be done, and not done.
I guess I am still a glutton for punishment and not yet accepting the inevitable. As I said above, I am giving this one more try, so that I can say to her, if this doesn't work out, that I have given her every opportunity to save our marriage. Very expensive opportunities. It sounds like I expect this not to work out, and that is true. But I will feel better knowing I 've tried everything, before I end this. On the other hand, if she takes her meds, stays on them and there is that change, I will be happy to have us go back to normal, or as normal as we can get.
The attorney explained that she is now in charge of my wifes health and welfare. She has been following her progress (or lack of it) in the hospital daily (it's only been 3). She talks to the nurses and the doctors. Until they are all in agreement that there has been enough progress for release, she must stay in the hospital. She has not yet introduced herself to my wife but will try before the end of the week.
Right now the court has allowed 30 days for this temp guardianship. The attorney today said that by next week we should be starting the process for making this "permanent". I asked, why so soon. She has only been 3 days. Attorney said that is takes a long time to get permanent guardianship, and need to start early. I am beginning to wonder what I started here.
She said if my wife does not respond to treatment, that she could be put into an outside group home, or halfway house. Sounds to me like that is treatment for druggies.
I just hope i can legally turn off what I have turned on. I hope this attorney is not leading me into a bigger problem. She says she has several other clients for which she is a guardian.
My fear is probably coming from the guilt I feel. I have to get control of myself.
bsc - stop beating yourself up. we in cyberspace are here to support you through this.
seems that you decided to take action. Good for you. I have
not heard about having a
lawyer assigned as a guardian, but I guess it depends on the local laws. But, If
I were you, I would go to a local public library and check out some books to
double check. I am not sure which state (province?) or country you are in, there
are usually plenty of resources for a lay person to tap into.
As for guilt feelings. That, I am very familiar with. Keep in mind that you did not cause her condition. She needs to take her medication. If this is the way to do it, so be it. She will hate you for it, but DD drains all judgement out of a perfectly reasonable person. She might already hate you for things you have not done or have any control over anyways. At least this way, she has a chance for functioning normally again.
for those of you who are waiting for an update, here goes!
She was in the hospital for 10 days. Came out last Thursday, almost a week ago. I went to work in the big city as usual. She cried and cried on the phone to me about how she was going to get home when she was discharged. I assured her she would not have to walk home.
When I visited her on the weekend (4 times) she seemed her usual nasty self but not quite as much. She was very angry that I "did" this to her. Took the oldest daughter with me the last visit. They got along amazingly well.
She has the doctor that treated her 10 - 12 years ago for depression, not the doctor that treated her in June. She felt more comfortable with someone that knew her mental history so that was a plus plus. He put her on Lithium and Respertal. They did monitor her pill taking to make sure they went down. Also drew blood daily to check the amount of meds in her body.
Toward the end of last week, her attitude seemed to improve. She was less sarcastic and cynical. She was excited to tell me about the people she met in the hospital, and how good the food was. The previous week she was the usual bitch.
The guardian attorney brought her home. She came into the house for tea and spent about 2 hours talking. The week before she told me she didn't like her, now they might be friends.
I spent last weekend at home. It was a definite improvement. There was no screaming on her part. In fact, I probably shouted more. She seemed subdued, quiet spoken, docile. Her gait was shuffling as she walked.
I am still not sure if she is acting, or the meds or working. As someone else on the forum posted, there is a difference one could live with. I still felt like I had to walk on eggshells in the topics we discussed. I was never sure whether something said, would trigger an "incident" or not.
Her parents did call her almost every day in the hospital the last week. I think she appreciated that support even from a distance. She is still confused about how her parents know so much about this. I don't discuss, with her, my phone calls to them, as she will probably say, conspiracy.
Sunday, she did make a big deal about where some watches were. I assured her they were whereever she put them. She started to complain again that someone was moving things around. I was surprised, and thought here we go again. But it didn't last too long.
She does say she is afraid to be in the house alone because people might bother her.
Cured?? Hell no!! But she has been on the meds only 2 weeks. I am hoping for miracles. Is this the wife I want back? Not sure yet. The Attorney says you can always divorce her later. No deadlines, no rush, give it a chance.
takes a month or more for the meds to really kick in. Don't be surprised if
side-effects cause doses to be adjusted, or meds to be changed altogether. My
husband started on Rispiradol, but it interferred with his concentration
(remember, he worked through all this, was layed off one job & had to look for
work, got work and then was fired, had to look for work again - that's a lot
over 18 months even for a person who isn't mentally ill). He went on a couple
different anti-psychotics, also several anti-depressants & sleep aids,
finally settled on Zyprexa, which seemed to work the best but caused a lot of weight
gain. Looking back, the main thing the meds did was just slow him down -
he couldn't think something crazy
and act on it at the same time. I don't know if it was meds or will power that
allowed him to stop the accusations for 6 months after going off the meds, but
those were the best months out of the years he was ill. It seems to be the
nature of the disease to cycle, mostly bad to worse, but some better. For me,
the 6 good months probably set me up for my decision to leave when he relapsed -
he was sick for so long before treatment, it was so horrible, but as everyone
here knows, it is amazing what you get used to. Then it was like we were back to
square one and I just could not do it all again - now knowing what it would be
like. And he never got any insight into what was wrong with him.
Ah, but this isn't about me. My divorce should be final within days. Not a happy ending, but an ending nevertheless.
Keep us posted, bsc, we are all hoping for the best, whatever that is.
This past weekend at home was tolerable, that is, there was no temper tantrums,
She is still wanting to tackle some of her "crazy" ideas. To do things beyond what can be done and insisting I help her. But the big difference now is she is listening to me when I patiently explain why some of things she wants to do cannot be done. Then calmly agrees to do something else.
She says her personality is now muffled. I agree. It seems that the boiling cauldron is still there but turned on low heat. I am waiting for the explosion at any time. I also think she may be taperingdown on the meds. I am nagging her about taking them, and she is not happy with my nagging. She says, "I am not a little child. I know what I am supposed to do."
She followed me this week to the big city. Next Doctor appointment Friday morn. Hope she goes back Thurs so as not to miss it.
Still hanging in here....hanging....
probably is a big change for her. It will take time for her to think that her
subdued personality is the "norm", not her "boiling over"personality.
This happened to my husband too. He started thinking that people are nicer to him when he is on meds, without realizing that it is just his perception that is changed. Then he twisted that too and started thinking people are nicer to him to coerce him to continue taking the meds, so he stopped taking them. This was two years ago. Now he acts as if he apprecates the meds. We'll se how long it will last.
Hang in there.
Yes, she says that people didn't like her the way she was, so now in her quieter
mode she will not scare people away.
She has not spoken of the voices in her head nor too many paranoid comments in the past week or two. Several references to "missing" items but no tantrums over it.
She has gone back home today (Thurs) for her Doctor appointment tomorrow. She is hoping he will reduce the meds so she isn't so doped up and groggy from them. I hope not. I don't want any of the "crazy" to peek through. If that happens, I will have to leave. I will try to give the Dr a call before her appoinment tomorrow to update him.
So here I am again, same old, same old. My husband was just released, far too early, in the family's opinion, from an acute care psychiatric facility in a major city, with very worthy doctors. Only, they didn't hear our side until release day, when they made an appointment with us to meet with his psychiatrist, only he was away on an emergency. Hmmm. I moved him out, into an available house, so the 3 kids & I are living on my whopping $12 hr. while he says the same thing over & over, that I've heard before, "I know I need to take my medication, I'll do whatever it takes." As some of you diehards to this forum know, this is year 3 with the same promises, and me not doing it anymore. On the brighter side, bsc, your wife's reaction to the medication is right on, and the symptoms do subside (they start feeling & acting "normal" within 2-4 weeks of regular meds) and in that case you will start seeing your wife come back to you- but don't forget the therapy, and don't forget you need some, too. I find myself consistently hounding my husband when he "comes around" & gets back on meds, or I find myself biting my tounge & wanting to... but they have their own burdens to deal with, & just now the ability to do so. So, even though things aren't going too hot for me, that is still the route to go as long as there is still hope! Hey, I miss you guys. I would be on more often, but now I'm a) at work where our desks are right on top of each other, or b) home, where our computer is right in the dining room (teenagers!) and our kids are dealing with enough without me online griping right in front of them. They're all out, a rare moment for me! Anyway, I have thought of you all, and am reading posts to get caught up. Looks like this time I'm on my own! Hooray & Sad all at the same time.
trying to avoid confrontations every day.it is so hard to live life in a lie.i
want to be the person i used to be.happy , easy and no worries.i am scared every
day because i never know what is it going to be today.i have been called names
(any bad name there is for a woman).i am controlled every second of my life.
dont have friends because i am afraid of my husband complaining.
and here i am looking at you guys being with women who have DD.
what happend to this world?didnt we at one point in our relationships love and trust them?what gives them the right to treat us like we dont belong?
LOVE to all in my situation! Jackie
I don't think anything "happened to the world." DD has probably been around since the beginning of time, it is just so in the shadows and not openly discussed. That is the main reason I am so thankful to have found this forum. Finally there are people out there who live this, understand it, and are willing to share their experience with it.
We did love and trust our DD partners at one time. I don't think we made bad choices, they were just misinformed; especially since the disorder is so rarely discussed and identified that how were we ever to have recognized symptoms before we gave our hearts away?! This disease so robs our partner of who they once were and will never be again.
Hang in there, there are many amazingly supportive people on this site.
Well its been 6 weeks out of the hospital. She has been slowly reverting back to
pre-hospital behavior. Still tolerable (for me), but clearly backsliding. Temper
is increasing, paranoid plot remarks increasing, demands increasing.
I am sure she is not taking all the meds, especially the Risperdal. She read me an article last night of a study showing that anti-psych meds can kill you. She cited a particular statistic about Risperdal - that 17% of people taking it died within 180 days. That is hard for me to believe. The study did not include what they actually died from - maybe not the drug. I told her to talk to the doctor about it when she sees him next week. Then she pointed out that I couldn't possibly love her, to allow her to take such dangerous meds, etc. Almost same old crap.
It is still tolerable, but I don't know what the next step is. Maybe what I've always known - to leave. Maybe I have just postponed the inevitable - and it wasn't cheap.
she is reverting to her old behavior, she most probably is not taking the meds.
(Read my posts about this). Respirdol is one of the safest antipsychotic drugs.
You know the doctors can use injection to administer most of these drugs,
especially if you or your lawyer has guardianship.
Just a thought...
have been reading what is written is this forum and it alternately makes me sad
My husband had a psychotic episode last Dec, went on meds for a while, ended up with a high glucose probably due to the risperitol and went off meds with drs permission. After trying to kill himself (and almost succeeding) 5 weeks ago before "they" got him, he was diagnosed with DD and ended up spending 4 1/2 weeks in the hospital. He is taking an older antipsychotic now. It seems to be working better then the risperitol, less side effects for him, or so he says.
Because he tried to kill himself and we have small kids he is on an order that says he has to take his meds, for at least the next 6 months. I am still at the point that I challenge his delusions, because that is what all the "professionals" say to do, not to agree with them. It is easy for them to say since they don't have to live with the person.
Although I intend to stay married to him after reading everything that is written here a small part of me wonders if it would be better to just leave now. It is hard though because I have know him for 20 years and I think that if I left it would kill him, and I don't think that I want that on my conscious
wonder if there is anyone out there who has come to that "leaving is evitable"
feeling, but continued to stay in the marriage? Not for a a few years, but for
the long haul? Can a spouse live with a DD spouse forever? I know I came to that
"inevitable" conclusion a full 2 years before I left, and it was worth it,
because once I left I had no doubts about the decision. The night before I left
I told my husband that I simply could not spend the next 30 years defending my
fidelity. He was almost plaintive, asking, "would that be so bad?" It was
heartbreaking, his utter lack of understanding, his conviction that any pain I
was feeling I had brought on myself by my evil ways.
Other news - still not divorced. Husband's lawyer continues to screw up, he has all the final papers that were rejected by the court because of his errors, so there is nothing I can do about it. I told my husband about this today - first conversation we've had in two years that did not include name calling and accusations. Still, I found myself shaking. At least the name calling enforces that I am glad I left him. A normal conversation leaves me remembering who he was, how I loved him, how I miss who he was, who we were, and will never be again.
so sorry that your wife is displaying symptoms again. I agree with the others
that she has probably stopped taking the meds. It is such a catch-22... they
need the meds to function and
then the meds do their job so well that they stop taking them.
I remember being so frustrated when my husband stopped taking his meds. He was very secretive about it, but when he started justifying not taking them and accusing the doctor as being inept at his job, I knew we were in trouble. Tried for a long time to get him to start his meds again. No success for me, here's hoping you will have better luck.
Well - pretty much ditto my post of 12/3/05, and sinking fast. We had planned to
visit my inlaws over the holidays when she was stiill acting "normal". Now I
don't know how they will take her. They may be expecting her to be more normal
as I described the
last time I talked to them. I
hate to cancel the
Also our daughter is coming over Xmas eve without the baby granddaughter. I cannot convince her to bring the baby. My wife will be furious since she says, now she is ready to be a grandmother. She feels she was robbed of this opportunity over the past year, and is blaming "them" again for doing this to her. More and more of the old delusion talk.
This will be my last post for the year. I hope we all can survive the holidays with our "special" problems added on to the normal family holiday problems. This is supposed to be fun - hard to prove that.
Happy holidays anyway, and a wish for better days for all of us.
am back. Alive, but barely. It was the worst 2 weeks. I believe she is now worse
than ever. The screaming temper tantrums are back. The nonsense talk. The demand
for the truth. The walls have ears and camera talk. The whole thing is back.
She says she know she should be taking the meds, but why can't the world accept someone who is a little eccentric. She feels she is at her best and very talented when manic.
She has another Dr appointment Friday. I will definitely warn him.
She is afraid is afraid I might put her back in the hospital. I told her I probably wouldn't because I have already racked up enough debt for no good reason. No - the answer is....leave.
It is a shame. I had high hopes for 3-4 weeks after the hospital.
Her parents were very dissapointed. So much so that they feigned illness so that we cut our visit 1-2 days short of our original intentions. They were afraid to let us take them out for dinner because of their daughters behavior.
Wow! How awful that must
have been for you. I'm sorry
to hear that things went so badly. Here's hoping the doctor's appointment on
Friday can convince her to take her meds more regularly. It obviously sounds
like she needs it.
Our thoughts are with you bsc.
I am really sorry, bsc. I hope the Dr. visit will help.
did talk to the Dr a few days before her visit of last Friday. He said he will
see what he could do but agreed that neither of us can physically force her to
take the meds.
Friday pm, after the visit, my wife calls to complain about me calling the Dr behind her back. The idiot told her, which doesn't cause him any problems but sure complicates things for me. But on the other hand it does bring out the truth between my wife and myself. I told her that it was for her own good since she wasn't listening to anyone about the meds.
She since then has plainly told me that she, and only she, will decide what meds go in her body, and when, and how much, etc.
She sounds like an ornery kid challenging authority. When I bring that up, she says there is no authority over her. That she and I are equals and I can't tell her what to do.
I talked to the attorney. There are now only 2 possibilities. Start divorce proceedings, or go back through the guardianship program. It would have to start from scratch, go to the probate court, have the atty assigned as guardian, have the sherriff pick her up again, etc.
Would it work on a third try? One interference was the Dr. He is not in favor of guardianships and convinced my wife of such. Also that Dr is no longer associated with the hospital. I heard from the atty that they asked him to retire. Unfortunately my wife likes that Dr. but doesn't listen to him any more than the first one.
Maybe it would work - third try is a charm - or is it strike out??
I still owe plenty of money for the first 2 stays, even with insurance.
She has let me go to work in the big city without insisting on tagging along for 2 weeks in a row.
Ball is in my court now.....??
Have you talked
to your wife about a divorce? You do seem to have clearly decided that you can't
live with her when she is not cooperating with treatment, if you are now
deciding between forcing a guardianship or filing divorce.
How would your wife react to "I cannot continue like this. If you won't cooperate with your doctors, I will leave you and file for divorce." ?
My husband's doctor told him repeatedly that if he continued to treat me as he was, I would inevitably leave him - but my husband saw this as some sort of challenge - he never saw his treatment of me as abusive, he only saw himself as the victim. Still does.
Ultimately, I left my husband because it was the only way to end his abusive treatment of me. I even turned down his offer to return to marriage counseling (which had only resulted in his immediate referral to a psychiatrist the first time), because even that was abusive, he saw it as a free pass to voice his absurd accusations.
I guess ultimately, I called his bluff. "Ok, so you don't think you are sick. You are a perfectly sane abusive SOB, who is incapable of treating me with respect, much less love and affection."
Yes, I wonder whether another round of psychiatry would have made a difference, but I also wonder about other roads not taken in my life, that's normal. But I know I am happier and healthier without him.
The old "Dear Abby" question, Are you better off with him/her, or without him/her?
Faithful, I guess that is what I stated - 2 choices. But the problem with me is
inertia. I always put off making
decisions like this.
In fact, I am surprised I got her into the hospital twice. I guess I sort of knew what to do but kept putting it off hoping that something else would come along and save me from having to make it.
From other peoples experience here on the forum, I could also predict the outcome, which did come to pass. I could have skipped over a lot of aggravation, dissapointment, and cost, if I had gone for the "going to leave youif you don't get help" bit initially. But I had to play it out.
This past week she has been bugging me more than usual on the phone. We have been having screaming matches about who the people are who are coming into the house and moving things around, taking them and putting them back, just to drive her crazy. I am mainly being screamed at for not agreeing with her and doing something about it.
I am so tempted to skip home tomorrow night. Unfortunately it is a 3 day weekend with MLK holiday for my company. I don't know if I can survive 3 days with her at home. Maybe I will dosomething else. Like use Monday to see my atty. Courts are closed. I wonder if she works. I'll give her another call and tell her which way I am probably going.
If I could go so far as to get her in the hospital twice. maybe I have the strength to start the divorce. I had such high hopes a month ago.
But you are right about one thing Faithful - I still haven't used the "going to leave you" threat to take her meds. I should at least try that. It can't take more than a few minutes. Problem is, she may agree, but not really do it. Then I have postponed my decsion again. Or she may tell me to go tell hell about the meds as she has been doing - then it's all over.
The answer to the Dear Abby question has got to be - worse off with her - been that way along time, even before DD. So why am I still with her???
Soon........ thanks for listening to my thinking out loud.
YOU NEED TO GO.
work at a law firm, and we are working on MLK day - as far as I know all law
Ulitmatums do back you into a corner as much as the one you are giving the ultimatum to, so I don't suggest it lightly. I did it twice. The first time he went back on his meds & we began theroller coaster ride of him being in treatment while all the while not admitting he was ill. The second time, of course, I left, and, as I've said, part of me was glad he refused to get back into treatment - it gave me a respectable "out" when I really just did not want to spend the rest of my life as his caretaker. There are people who like the caretaking role in a relationship, and helpless men especially are a cultural stereotype - we've all laughed at "Mr. Mom" flooding the laundry room. But if I am going to be in a relationship, I need it to be of equals, partners, and I knew I'd never have that again with my husband. Besides DD, he had just ceased being an adult - wouldn't hold down a job, wouldn't clean up after himself, spent money recklessly. Take the DD away, and he was still a burden, not a helpmate. I don't expect 50-50 all the time, but 100-0 just doesn't cut it for me, not for the long term.
It's a new year, bsc. What do you want to do with the rest of your life?
Where I live there is a thing called a community treatment order (CTO) which is a legal document that can make people take there meds. It is used to try to keep people out of the hospitals and to get them help in the community with things like psychiatrist appointments, case management and medication compliance. If they don't fallow through then they can be taken to a mental health facility involuntarily for assesment It is voluntary but if you can get her to believe that you will leave if she won't sign it then maybe she will. It lasts for 6 months and they hope after that time they will have some insight into their illness or they can be renewed after 6 months. Good luck
It's BSC just testing right now. Besides losing several posts, I also lost my
name when the forums went down. With auto login, I never use my pass word, so I
forgot it. I did something very
obscure and can't reconstruct it. I can't even get it by email because the email
I used was one of the free yahoo types and I can't remember that either.
Let me see if this will post.
it did. So while I am trying to reconstruct my password, I will update you.
All the way home (250 miles) Friday night I kept telling myself that I should not go home. That it will be a terrible weekend. The hint was in the yelling phones calls all week. She kept bugging me by cell phone as i was driving.
She was mad (literally) that I was taking so long driving in the rain, dark, etc. When I got home she whisked me away in her car waiting in the driveway.
Supposedly we were going out for dinner. She was driving since I had just driven 5 hours, not that it would bother me to drive.
She wanted to drive to the airport and just get on a plane to anywhere just to do something different and exciting. Definite manic mode as usual. Wanting the impossible.
We fought for several hours about me not being able to meet her demands.
Saturday went up to help her clean up the storage room which has been an ongoing project for her for a year. We do have a lot of stuff she bought for the business she was going to go into (never).
Big arguments about the people who were coming into the house and unpacking things she packed, moving them around, stealing some, etc, you all know the story. Then she started throwing things at me, blaming me for all of these happenings that didn't happen. We finally made peace for that day.
Sunday, went up to continue the clean up as I had promised. Same delusional crap out of her mouth, yelling, screaming, throwing. By 4 pm I was out the door when her back was turned, out in the backyard burning trash.
Headed for a motel up tghe highway and told her when she called why I left and that I wasn't coming back until she was back on her meds. She, of course, poo-pooed this. I answered the phone a few more times to make sure she got the message. I told her that I love her, but cannot be with her when she is like that.
She acted like she did nothing wrong. She kept saying that I probably left because I didn't like the clothes she was wearing. She always says that. She insists that she can tell that I don't like them from the expression on my face which she can't see when she says it. Also, that I was upset about the clean up.
I refrained from answering any more until the next day Monday.
I called the atty to find out she was taking the day off. Yes they were open, but my atty was not. Too bad because at that time I was in the mood for a divorce.
Killed the rest of the day visiting another big city I grew up in. Went to see a friend who wasn't home. Then headed back to my work city.
Have been talking to her almost normal. She wanted to follow me to work but I talked her out of it, so far. Tonite is Wed nite. Have to decide again by Friday if I am going home.
Big trauma this morning. The furnace pilot lite went out from wind down the chimney. Happens about once a year. I always fix it. Had to talk her through it by phone for about an hour. It should only take 5 minutes, but her mental state would not allow her to focus on what I was saying. Panics too easily.
Time to go back to the motel and sleep.....
am sorry to hear your wife went back to her old ways again. My psychologist told
me once that it is like experiencing your spouse die over and over again.
Today is the Friday you were dreading. I hope everything will go OK, if you decide to go visit her. Good luck, hang in there.
now around noon central time. She has already called me this morning to ask when
I am leaving, and to be aware of the bad weather coming into the area. I told
her I would leave my usual time and no sooner. She complained that I take too
long to drive and we should spend more time together. Shouldn't spend it in the
car driving. I told her spending more time with her is not fun if she is going
to be the way she was last weekend. She says, you are setting me for not coming
home at all. I said, your behavior will determine that.
Anyways back and forth until I said, you're interupting my work, I'll never get out of here if continue wasting my time. She said OK. I hung up.
I will head east this afternoon in any case. But whether or not I go home will be be determined by her phone call behavior. If it sounds like this weekend is going to be like last, I will spend the rest of my life in a motel.
Main point, I have been listening carefully all week to what and how she says things to detect if she is taking her meds. It is possible she is taking some, but I don't think a few days worth is going to change her a lot. I'll let you know Monday, or sooner if I split before that.
Well I split before Mon morn. Now Sun nite in a motel near the big city I work.
Bad Fri nite, Sat mostly bad. Today, Sun morn got into a big fight about me switching some pills on her (not her head pills). The argument got physical and I grabbed my coat and left, again, two weekends in a row.
Stopped to see my daughter and grand daughter for a little while.
I hope she doesn't follow me to the big city. She called a number of times. I answered a few to tell her to take her head meds and if I can tell that she has, maybe I will be back Friday. The atty never called me back last week. I wil have to get her on the phone. Have to decide which way to go.
I am sorry to hear that things did not go well on the weekend. I hope the attorney can help. Once, a dr. told me that they can use injections to deliver the meds to the patient. It is used for people who are not cooperative in taking their meds. Perhaps that is an option for your wife.
She did not follow me here to work. She is staying home trying to get relief for
her hurt leg. Anti-inflamatories, ice packs, etc. Been hurting her for a few
weeks. Has been bugging me on the phone all day.
Her mother called me, to tell me that my wife called her. to say her husband (me) left her. Her mother said, well what do you expect if you are not taking your meds. She told her mother FU and hung up on her. She then called back to ask if she could stay with them (her parents) for a while. Her mother said, if we wouldn't let you in the house last June, why would we now. Of course if you are on your medicine, that would be different. Another FU and hang up.
Our daughter told me yesterday that she wants nothing to do with her mother, and doesn't want the granddaughter to have anything to do with her either. If mom takes her meds and there is a clear change in her behavior, I will change my mind.
Such destruction to a family caused by this "disease". Agravation, frustration are not strong enough words to describe my feelings. The words I would like to use, I can't post here.
My wife did allude to separation and divorce in some earlier conversation today. I am trying to let her come to the conclusion herself that if she continues her behavior, and doesn't take the meds that control that behavior, that I am not going to spend much, if any, time with her. And since I want her behavior to be controlled, and she feels that, that is not what she wants to do, we no longer have a marriage. We do have little in common anymore - can hardly have a conversation. For the short period she was on the meds, it was almost like the good old days, but not quite the same.
The atty finally called me back (left a long message) explaining that she was very busy and that if I were to engage her for separation or divorce, the retainer would probably be more than I could afford (she gave me a number), and she wouldn't be able to get it started for some time. She gave me the names of 2 other attys, a male and a female, that she has worked with in the past. If I engaged them, then she would provide them with the background of the case, etc. for no charge, and work with them as necessary.
A few weeks ago she hinted that she was not sure if it would be a conflict of interest representing me in a divorce, since she was appointed my wifes temp legal guardian. But I was the one who hired her to do that. Oh well...
I think the large retainer fee was to encourage me to go elsewhere. And who would represent my wife? She is not in the state of mind to go hire someone. This guardian atty could do a good job (really, too good a job against me). My wife would probably not go to her. I have to pay for it all anyway. I have to buy my way out of this mess.
I went to look at an apartment this afternoon. May save a little money over a motel room in the big city. Problem is, that is what my wife has wanted me to do for a long time. She would probably move in. Though the apartment would not meet her approval for where it is. Maybe that would discourage her.
Just got another call from her, sniveling as usual to make me feel guilty. She says I should try to live a married life with her 7 days a week to prove how much better everything would be. I said, not without her being on her meds. In fact, I really emphasized again that without her being on meds 24/7 we would probably have to end our relationship, period.
See what happens next...
She may make promises I know she won't keep. She wants me to quit my job, then I will have no choice, no funds, no place to go. Mustn't let her get the upper hand...
Sorry, I am now talking to myself... thanks for listening.
Hang tough and do what you have to do to save your own sanity. Yes, you probably
will have to "buy yourself out of this mess" but having been there the money
situation you can fix over time; her situation without meds you can never fix.
Really sorry you are going through all this.
One word of caution: Check with the attorney before you get an appartment. It might have legal impications against you if you decide to get a divorce. (It does in our state)
What would be the basis of a legal problem getting an apartment?
Right now my (and my wifes) legal residence is in one state. I work 2 states
It is possible, I suppose, that getting an apartment in a different state, changes my legal residence, and may affect where I have to file for divorce. I would want to file where we have been living rather than my work city.
You're right - I need to ask the atty.
She just called to drive me nuts. Wants to drive 250 miles so we can watch a tv show together. Trying to talk her out of it.
10,000 views of this topic! Must be a record. No one has worked harder on his/her marriage than you have bsc. Time to take care of yourself.....
I saw that number last night. Am I famous? I hope not - supposed to be
anonymous. But when the book comes out, and then the movie..... ......I'll have
to go public.
No prizes here for big numbers. We all just have a lot to say. And apparently a lot of curious people are following it. Maybe it's an indication of how many non-vocal people have similar problems. I hope we're helping them, but I'm not a great example of success in this endeavor.
Update - last Friday I had made up my mind not to go home for the weekend, since
the last 2 weekends at home with her ended early. I thought I might even make a
Sat appointment with the atty. He did invite me to call him on his home phone
Sat morn if I neede to.
My plans were pre-empted by you know who. She called me earlier in the day to tell be she was going to spend the day in a city about a quarter of the way between home and work. She was going to shop, get hair done, etc. and then meet me for dinner when I passed thru. We do that sometimes.
Then around the time I was going to leave work she calls to tell me she is lost. She wanted me to help her but wouldn't tell me where she was. Finally got that out of her and found out she had actually driven all the way to spend the weekend with me in the big city.
I should have continued to drive home and ignore her pleas for help. She would eventually find her way. In the meantime I could drive home, get some more stuff from the house, etc. but she drives very fast, and might pass me on the road.
So I rescued her from lost. We spent the weekend half way back home. Good hotels, good food, etc, but was she happy - no way, never is, misery for 3 more nites and 2 days.
This morning I said I am going to work and you go back home, I will see you Friday. But long story short, she followed me, and now I am stuck with her the rest of the week. I may sneak away one day this week with my bosses cooperation. She won't let me out of her sight. Mad because I have my own car and not dependent on her controlling the situation.
Just had another big yelling contest on the phone. Lost again and didn't even check into the motel. She had to kill 9 hours by herself and get s in trouble every time. Worse than a kid.
Sounds like it might be time for you to get your own apartment, a restraining order, and a new phone number. Although, a restraining order would necessarily let your wife know where you live. Financially, it would be a mess - my husband missed my income more than me and is now mountains in debt, but when the house sells & he figures out how to get my 401k money the court awarded him, he should be ok for a while. An attorney should be able to tell you what your financial obligations are - but don't let it scare you, these things work out.
Speaking of, our battle with this illness has left us both with absolutely
nothing financially. I've just recently got online & for $34 downloaded legal
separation papers that I will be filling out this week, then I'll have to draw
up divorce papers somehow.
Any advice from any of you that could not afford legal council? I've got 3 kids
& he's got no job. I made $24,000 last year & we sold our house a few years ago
to pay medical fees, and after being in a psych ward in October, medical is
piling up again. You all have always been great as far as emotional support,
which I will still appreciate, but I'm needing some legal advice. I'm a big
girl, the decisions I make are my own, so know that I understand that none of
you are lawyers and the advice you give is purely opinion, I won't slap you with
any kind of law suit if the advice goes awry.
On the sunny side, I am absolutely pumped about starting a new life & willing to take on the challenges! I'm already looking into a subsidized low-income village just built here last year that has 2-3 bedroom townhouses, so rent would be about $300 less plus no landscape maintenence, no garbage to deal with (I don't have a truck & kids produce oodles of garbage) and I'll be about 20 miles closer to work. Wahoo! And, sunnier yet, my kids are blossoming without dear old dad. My daughter just got accepted to go on a humanitarian trip to Thailand for a month this summer teaching kids English & working in a village! My boys' grades are up and tempers down, and they're way into playing & writing music (it was always "too loud" with dad around.) So, anyway, that's me, that's where I am. Missed you, plan to log in regularly now, I'm dying to know what bsc will do. Also, since I've only had a minute or two in the past to log in here, what's up with Alex? & happymom? I'd love an update. Just the skinny...
In California, upwards of 80% of divorces are done without lawyers, so it can be done. I'd start with your local BAR association, who should be able to point you to free or low legal aid. Your court might have a family law clinic staffed with paralegals, and it's web-sit might have down-loadable forms. If you are getting subsidized housing or other state aid, the D.A.'s office may assist in getting what they can as far as child support from your ex. Your local battered woman's shelter (find it through http://www.wscadv.org) might point you to resources also. Good luck - sounds like you've made that so difficult first step - deciding to leave.
I'm so glad to hear from you. Can you believe it has almost been 3 years since you got this site going! I can't offer much good advice on the legal front. I am growing deeper in debt trying to get divorced. Dear old hubby is dragging his feet and making me go thru the courts to obtain every piece of info needed. Right when it comes time to go to court, low and behold he then produces the info. Our lawyers have worked up a settlement so keep your fingers crossed that all will be done in the next few months. I am guessing the whole thing is going to run me 6-7 thousand dollars.
I am so excited that you and your children have been able to start a new life. After everything we have been thru it makes you appreciate all of the little things life has to offer. Me and my son are doing great. I don't know if you remember but my latest hurdle was telling his birthparents that I was getting divorced. I felt like I let them down. The time finally came and they were amazing. His birthmother said that every time she sees the 2 of us together she realized that she made the best decision of her life and that he couldn't have a more wonderful mother. It was such a weight off my shoulders. She was just amazing. On another front, my soon to be ex is still off only I don't see it first hand often. Last Friday I heard a car beeping at me and it was him. He asked where I was going because he was coming over to pick up our son. I said it's Friday not Saturday. He says oh crap. So I guess he never called out of work. I'd like to say it's not my problem but if he loses his job the child support will stop and God only knows how I would afford day care.
It's been 2 1/2 years since the seperation. Wow how time flys! I feel like I consider many people on here friends. We probably know more about each other then some family members. I don't know what I would have done without everyones support. My family and friends have been encouraging me to date. I have not done that yet however I did put a profile together to put on one of those dating sites. I have not have the nerve to put it up. I am taking baby steps. I'll let you know what becomes of this adventure.
As for Alex, he has not been on in a very long time. I am guessing over a year. I do think about him. Alex if you are out there we would love to just get a hello from you. We feel like we lost one of us. Like you, I am also waiting to see what will happen with BSC. He knows what we think he should do but everyone needs to do what is best for them.
Glad your back even though I wish things would have worked out differently for you.
am I waiting to see....
I got away from her last week to go to work fro the week. I had the choice of not going home Friday. But there is something about VD (Valentines Day) that makes me feel guilty if I don't perform up to her expectations. Too bad it had to be that near weekend.
So I went home. Friday nite OK. Watching the Olympics ceremony was a good distraction. We do this every 4 years. Things went well.
Saturday not too bad, again watching Olympics.
Sunday, she complained too much Olympics and not enough time "devoted " to answering her ridiculous questions. We have always watche every minute of the winter Olym.
Fight started, I got away when we decided to go to movies. I told her I was going out to warm up car. Did I take advantage of the situation. No, not dummy me. The overwhelming guilt told me to buy her a VD present which I hadn't yet.
Went home to pick her up for the movies. Of course she wanted an explanation. Easy - went to buy you somethiong for VD.
Monday morn was going to give it to her early as I made my getaway for the week to work. She threw her stuff into my car and jumped in. She came with me. I have been suffering for it so far all week.
Maybe next weekend.....
Nope - past weekend I was really looking
for an opening to get away.
She watches me like a hawk. Every time I get near the front door she wants to
know what I am doing. Can't even run out for anything without her jumping in the
She won't even take a bath, afraid I will run away. I will. She has, for several years now, hung bells or chimes on the door. She says when she is alone at night, she wants to be able to hear anyone coming in the door. I ask her if she has ever caught anyone yet. Usually no answer.
For one of my runaways I carefully removed the chimes from the door leading to the garage with a towel to muffle the sound. It worked until she heard the garage door opener in action.
It's a cat and mouse game. This past Monday morn she insisted we take her car. Then I lose total control. I got into my car (van) instead. Most of my clothes were still in it from the previous week. It is amazing how fast she got into her car to follow me. I swear she was 5 blocks behind me before I turned into a side street. I didn't think she saw where I turned, but she did. So now it is a second week in a row she is with me driving me crazy.
I must make a break this coming weekend. You all may think I am truly the crazy one. Why can't I just walk out with an FU flourish, get in my car and drive away? Because it may be bad for my health.
There is no reasoning with her. I cannot handle the situation in my work city. I must do it from home. There is no rush. I am only getting older and wasting my time for a no win game...
Maybe tomorrow I will call someone in my home town who may be able to help.
Or you can call the police. A woman on my block left her husband under police escort. Your wife already has a history with the police, so I bet they will agree to come to the house and be there to make sure you can leave without her following you. Makes news in the neighborhood, but it works.
Wow, I feel for you! Well, technically I always have. I am somewhat guilty of
the same, though I have gone to the next step, asking for divorce. He still
says, "I love you" when we speak, and I still say, "I love you, too." Which
isn't a lie. But, I think, the Band-Aid should probably just be ripped off & I
shouldn't even say that. I actually take the time to remind myself not to, and
sometimes I get away with just a quick "Goodbye!" and hang up, or shut the door.
I just got back from a conference out of state, and found out I was $200 overdrawn & my cell bill was almost $400. I chewed him out for a) doing it, knowing how much I make & how many bills are still outstanding, and b) not getting his own phone hooked up ($30 per month at most, compared to the latest cell trend) and all he could say is, "So, when we grow old, are we going to be together?" all lovey-dovey. He doesn't have a clue about reality, even on medication. I think this will be the very best thing for him. He'll have to fend, & grow up. Maybe the same for your wife? We've been enabling long enough. Probably far too long. Thank God my kids don't hold it against me, though this last time it came close. I was considering letting him back home since we couldn't afford 2 households, until my friend let it slip that she heard he had just recently told another acquaintance that our kids weren't his. Ugh!
Luckily, he's willing to sign anything, so I've got that going for me. I just need to finish with the paperwork! I'm conveniently putting it off.
I'm applying for subsidized housing this week, we have a really nice new apartment complex near where I work that has many available 3 bedrooms, though I'm not too thrilled to have my 2 teen boys in an apartment when music is their life (they play their guitars constantly.) But, like with everything else, we'll adjust!
I don't know if they get direct email that they can choose to answer or not answer, but I'm going to drop Alex a private email & see if I get any response. I'm dying to know what's going on with his kids. Hopefully no news is GREAT news. My thoughts are with you, as always, bsc. And all of the rest of you, too!
Thank you both, ladies, for your concern.
Last night was a wild ride around the biggest city in the midwest for 3 hours. She picked me up after work but insisted that she drive while we looked for someplace to eat. When we found exactly what she said she was looking for, she changed her mind, drove off. Got an interstate by accident, drove to timbuktoo and back, insisting that we were being followed. Started yelling at me for not being concerned for her safety, etc etc. Too complicated to explain the rest of the detail.
By the way, she got another speeding ticket the other day. Fourth in a year and a half. If she loses her license that may be good or bad. She could care less about the law, thinks she is above it and special. She would probably drive without a license if she had to. probably part of the plot against her.
The weekend is getting closer. I have to get her home and make my escape from there. Maybe the police would help if necessary.
By the way - click on Alex47 for his profile. Then click on email. His email address comes up.
Ok, so I did email, but bummer, no response as of yet. You worry, what if he's making a go with the wife again, and he gets a suspicious email from a stranger, all cryptic & what not? All the good work out the window, or not, I guess. I hope I didn't stir the pot, that's all. With me, more & more info comes forth & I'm surely glad to be where I am, separating myself from what I used to think was normal. Phew. Someday we'll all have to have lunch! I think I've said that before! Maybe a 10 year deal. Thank goodness I have you guys, that's all I can say. Thank goodness.
I have my name back near the 2 year anniversary of joining the forum. New
password. Thank you site admin.
Well, I have spent 3 solid horrible (mostly) weeks with her. I got away this Monday morning since I was stopping on the way to the big city, for a job interview in a city nearer to home. Near enough that I could live at home daily and commute 1 hour instead of 5 hours weekly.
I convinced her that she cannot follow me there since it may put the interview in jeopardy. And she would certainly want me to get that job since it means she would see me every night. She agreed. Amazing.
The question is, do I want to spend every night with her?? If she got more "normal", probably.
She claims that us living on the road, or me being away all week is what is causing the stress, triggering her "craziness". So, in that sense, she is saying it is my fault. But then when she adds, "the other people" are also at fault, you know what the real problem is.
The guardian atty finally left me a message late last week. She said she is ready to go back to court to get the temp guardianship again, and have my wife "picked up". But this time she would apply for permanent. Then everything would be in her hands, for my wife, including representing her in a divorce. And I would have to get my own divorce atty.
Strange that the atty helping me on the one hand, can become my enemy on the other. And I would have to pay for it anyway. There is no justice.
If my wife doesn't drive here this week to stay with me (guard me from escape), I may take some action Friday.
In the mean time, the potential new employer wants to see me again next Monday. He is interested in me. I will persue the new job in case that is a good option for me. Until I actually give notice for my present job, I can always change my mind.
Hope it goes your way, whatever you choose! I am revelling in my "freedom," and the more time goes by the more I remember and get angry about. The little things. At this point I don't believe a word he says, it's different according to whomever he's speaking to. Very good at letting everyone hear what they want to hear. No honesty whatsoever. So what's the point of marriage? I feel really ripped off. I'll be moving soon, another adventure, and I'm ready to be done with that. I have anxiety attacks now and then, in the middle of the night, panicked about, "how will I do this?" But I know I'll be just fine. Ready to move on!!!! Keep us posted!
is hard to believe that
2 years have gone by since I started posting and telling my story.
I can't use any cliches like, it has gone full circle, or straight done the tubes. Because after re-reading my first few pages in this thread I started, I realise I am still telling the same story.
No circles, no lines. Standing in place. I have gone nowhere. Two hospital attempts that were successful in getting her in, but no substantive change in life, hers or mine. Won 2 battles but continue to lose the war.
Read 2 years ago of phone calls with her of yelling and screaming and hangups. Just tonight, happened again.
Sorry, I'm "Guest" above. I seem to have to log in two or three times before it takes?! Anyway, hang in there, bsc. It won't be Groundhog Day forever. I thought I was living that movie for almost 4 years. Phew! Exhausting.
have to share today with you all. I am hanging around
the town where I live, not work, waiting for Monday morn to go to the atty to
sign the papers and go to court to have the atty become my wifes guardian again.
And hopefully picked up by the sheriff and taken to the hosp psych ward.
I drove over to the college where my youngest daughter is now working as an adjunct teacher in biology. She finally got her BS in biology she has been working on for 11 years, last June. I haven't seen her for about a year and a half.
The last time was when my wife and I took her out for dinner. My wife and her got into a big hassle in public. She walked out, my wife walked out. Thirty dollars worth of food wasted. They never did get along when she was a kid.
Unfortunately she is too much like my wife in disposition and temperment. We discussed the possibility that whe she gets into her 40s, she may have similar problems.
She caught me up to date in her life in a few hours. She then introduced me to a middle age woman whom she had mentioned in the past, (before incommunicado). This lady was a mentor to my daughter, and old enough to be her mother or maybe grandmother. She had already known my wifes situation. I guess my daughter had confided in her. Her 32 year old son was schizophrenic. We talked about an hour and a half about the commonalities in the 2 conditions, the state of psychiatry in our town, etc. Just a very interesting face to face conversation with someone with whom I had too much in common.
Tomorrow, my daughter and I will meet over at my oldest daughter’s house to discuss any possible strategy about Monday. I don't think either of them will help me much, but it is nice to know that, besides you guys, there are people physically close who understand what I am going through.
Besides, I can see my grand daughter tomorrow wih my 2 daughters. What a damn shame that my wife cannot join us for the family reunion that she has been bitching isn't taking place. Both daughters have stated that wherever Mom is, they will not be, until she is stable on her meds.
reunion with my youngest daughter got a bit erased today. I went to see my
oldest daughter, granddaughter, and the daughter I saw yesterday, as planned.
The youngest daughter was overly concerned that my wife would come by the house and see my car in the driveway. She would then try to break into the house, do damage to her car, and wreck havoc to all of us. She continued to talk louder and louder, working her self up into a tizzy. She insisted that my wife had discovered where she lived (a deep dark secret that I don't even know), and was running around the outside of her apartment and tapping on the windows.
I told her she was beginning to sound like her mother. She took great offense it this, saying I was calling her crazy. I reminded her of the genetic vulnerability she has. And that she is lucky being forwarned of the possibility, and being of superior intelligence in the biological sciences, she will know what to do.
That was probably not the right thing to say. My older daughter calmed her down, and everything smoothed out for the remainder of my visit.
Yep, she will probably also get "it". That is probably why my wife and her have never gotten along. Runs in the family. The older daughter has problems too, but understands them and willingly takes her meds. More depression than manic or DD. As she gets older it may switch around. Why isn't more research done in this area??
While driving around town killing time, I paid a visit to an old friend of the family my wife worked with in producing a childrens book 18 years ago. She is very active in NAMI in our town. her daughter has problems since she was born. We had an hour driveway conversation. She gave me plenty of encouragement that I am doing the right thing.
Tomorrow is the day. Hope it goes well, and quickly. Hope the sheriff doesn't take 3 days to pick up my wife like last time.
Amazing - the login went thru the first time.
The next day:
Went to the atty office. We then walked over to the court house. The clerk of the probate court took my statement again. Typed it up and then produced the order to send to the sheriff. We didnt have a hearing in front of the judge this time. The atty said she would do that later in the week, after my wife was admitted to the psych ward of our local hosp.
She said it would take about 3 - 4 hours and then they would go out to the house and pick up my wife. I killed more time. I then wandered over to our street about the appointed time, and lo and behold, there were 3 police cars in front of the house. I didn't turn down our street, but the next street where I could see, somewhat, between the houses. After 15 minutes they left. I assumed they had her.
I was going to then go into my house, but something stopped me. I thought I ought to wait to find out for sure. I called the sheriff dept to inquire. They said no they didn't have her. She would not open the door, or answer the phone. They said, since she was not a criminal, they would not break down the door. If I wanted her picked up, I would have to participate by opening the door for them. We agreed I would meet them there, the next time they had a window to do it - about an hour later.
The last thing I wanted to do was be there face to face with my wife, while they incarcerated her. I gathered all my strength and got myself into a mindset to just do it.
I opened the door. Went in with the 3 officers behind me. She was on the phone with her mother, whom, I found out later, was keeping her on the phone for the past 40 minutes so she wouldn't leave the house.
It took about another 40 minutes to convince her she had to go cooperatively, or it would be by force. She gathered up some belongings and we finally got her out the door and into one of the cars. During this time she put on a lively demonstration of paranoia, irrationality, etc. Away she went.
Got a call about an hour later from the hospital asking me to reconfirm my statements in the afadavit (sp). They then admitted her.
I am heading back to the big city tomorrow morn to go to work. Another day wasted, but worth it. But maybe not. We will see how it unfolds over the next several days or weeks.
She kept asking, why I keep doing this to her. I said, because i love you and am trying to keep our marriage together. If this doesn't work because you don't take your meds, or cooperate with the Dr, it's going to be divorce. this is your last chance.
I will keep you posted
anybody have knowledge of the Risperdal injections once every 2 weeks? Does it
take as much time as the pills to be effective, or is it faster?
My wife was excited that she didn't have to take those pills in the hospital, but still has to take the lithium.
Her attitude seems to have improved in the past 4 days, but still trying to talk her way out. She says she talked to a different Dr today (a female) whom she feels was listening to her compared to the Dr assigned to her when she came in last monday. This one said that if my wife were her patient, she wouldn't have to stay there. Of course, my wife wants to change over to this other Dr.
She heard rumors at the nurses station that she may be put into a halfway house. She is very upset at this notion, and would rather come home when discharged from the hospital. The atty guardian will have to handle this. She (atty) and I talked about this.
We had a frank talk this p.m. visit. She said she knows she has a problem, and the reason she stopped taking her meds was because she was losing her creativity. She couldn't function on the meds.
We talked about how she was functioning off the meds, and what it was doing to our relationship, and the suffering I am going through as a result. She said, she thought I liked her that way. She was a little surprised that I am upset.
Now that's delusional.....
Interesting that she thought you liked her that way (off meds). My trying to
keep my ex on his meds was in some ways turned around to, "but the meds make me
feel lousy, and if you loved me you wouldn't want me to feel lousy, so you must
not love me if you want me on the meds" - and of course, true love is "loving me
as I am." Even I now have feelings that way - if he'd stayed on the meds, we
would have stayed married, but at what cost, for both of us? As bad as divorce,
especially after 30 years, is, we are both happier for it. He's even convinced a
woman to believe he loves her and to marry him, although the rest of his family
think it's a con, he wouldn't know love if it bit him, she feels loved, we all
suppose. For as long as it lasts.
And then, I felt, "If you loved me, you'd stay on the meds. That is loving me for who I am - a person who needs her husband to behave rationally, and, frankly, kindly - to me." He was so just plain mean to me off the meds, and he never saw it. Like, likely, your wife never sees it. The ironies of this illness never ends.
Still having to log in twice to post?! Is anyone else having that problem? bsc, I'm at a loss for words. I am right with you in spirit. In October, I was where you are for the third time, & heard the same things. "I like this doctor more than that one," (because they were more easily manipulated, or at least feigning to be on "their" side to get more info, which is still iffy) and the whole "if you loved me you'd accept me as I am." "Dr. So&So said if you'd just do this we'd be fine!" Unfortunately, these Dr.'s have a half an hour a day to catch up on years of the spider web your wife & my husband have woven. It winds down to, if you love them you'd do what's best for them. That's where they don't understand. Then in my case, when it's out of your hands, you turn it over to God, their family, or whatever keeps you & the rest of your family safe. I'm so sorry your daughters are still suffering. Interestingly enough, I've read & heard from top docs that this skips a generation, for the most part. My husband is one of 12 kids, many on meds for this or that, and our 3 children have around 80 cousins (some are 2nd cousins) and though we've seen some "similarities" or "tendencies" in behavior, they are not full blown, and I feel they are just acting as they were raised, in crazy households. They don't have that persistant behavior like my husband, & some of his brothers & sisters do. Think really hard about your younger daughter's behavior & really assess if she's acting on paranoia or displaying behavior she's grown up with. There is a slight difference, and the 2nd slacks off after being in the "real world" for a while w/o parental "input" whereas actual mental illness you cannot control. I don't even know if I'm making sense, I'm coming off a REALLY bad day dealing w/ my husband. Hope I'm not rambling. Good talking with you all.
Thank you Faithful and Sisterfriend for your input.
I flew out to Denver very early this morning on a business trip. It also gave me a chance to visit my brother and nephew whom I haven't seen in 13 years. We spent an afternoon catching up. My brother is aware of the situation by phone and email.
I could have been making similar trips all along the past 6 years but didn't because, you know who, would be very jealous. I have also been by passing foreign travelo for the same reason. Now I say, the hell with her.
I just left a message for the atty, passing on the info I posted above, and to ask her for a status update of the guardianship.
My brother, who got divorced a few years ago himself, says dump her. I don't give his opinion a lot of credibility because he and I being 8 years apart are coming from 2 different places. But it was good to see him again.
Yes - 2 logins are required lately. I don't know why.
Sounds like the Denver trip gave you a window of life without crazy in it. When we live with DD spouses, we tend to restrict our lives without even realizing it - or if we do realize it, it has simply become a way of life. Glad you got to see your brother. Hope it isn't another 8 years until you see him again.
Well tomorrow I
fly back home again. They let her out of the hosp last Tuesday. I have been
talking to her by phone. She is quite
happy that they had no open beds for her at the half way house. She is in a
"home care" treatment plan.
She went this afternoon for her first appointment to talk to a social worker. She was not happy with the outcome of that. Says that is for drug addicts and alcoholics, not for her. Furthermore, because I make too much money, they want to charge her (actually me) $250 per visit. And she has a choice of not going.
Next week she goes to get her shot of Resperdal. No guarantee she will continue taking her Lithium daily.
She still sounds beligerant and combative, and does not understand why I did this to her.
The atty has filed for temp guardianship for 30 days. Atty wants to know if I want to sign the waiver for to get permanent guardianship. At first I thought, no. But that may be the only weapon I have. She says she will monitor my wife from the background to make sure she shows up for her appointments, etc.
I am going to drag my feet on this one to see how the weekend goes. My inlaws say I should go ahead and sign. Maybe Monday.
Another issue that just came up is a new job offer closer to home. I can be home with her every night. It is still an hour drive each way. I have been looking for this opportunity for 6 years to work closer to home, but under the circumstances, I am not sure that is what I want right now.
I guess there is still divorce. Decisions, decisions. The jury is still out on whether my 3rd try is working or not.
Hey, at least you can afford an atty & aren't terrified you're goign to overlook something in the paperwork & lose everything. I've been supposed to file all week, & completely overwhelmed everytime the paperwork is in front of me (envision a catatonic state) I've managed to put it off. This was my deadline, & I managed to put it off until tomorrow. At least tomorrow I can devote the entire day to getting a divorce & file Monday. Today I've deep cleaned & purged many of the things my mother-in-law gave me. Feels good. My daughter who graduates this year will be going on an expidition oversees to teach children in a remote village English for a month (husband against it. Too bad!) will be suspicious of my behavior, but I seemed to have slunk (is that a word?) into a depression that I know I'll get through as soon as this move is over (acceptance to apartment depends on filing paperwork) but for now I'm feeling like going to bed for a few days. Feeling like this is bottom with at least a shot at a happy future ahead, cannot imagine what I can take if he contests anything. & hey, bsc, this is the 3rd time with me, too. I'm tired.
a three-time loser myself, I can understand the reluctance to get a divorce.
Even though I don't care what people think about me, it was hard for me to go
through with it the last time because I felt like a failure.
I think that the feeling of failure kept me in the third marriage a whole lot longer than I would have if it had been the first or second marriage. I think it's hard to call it quits when you've really tried to be married, and really believed in the fairy tale, and really wanted somebody in your life to love.
The three-time loser jokes don't help. I hear them all the time and cringe. People are so judgmental and stupid sometimes.
BUT.... One thing we've got: intestinal fortitude. It takes guts to take a chance on love that many times in the face of failure, but even more guts to make a commitment after those failures. Hang in there, I know exactly where you're coming from. We are not losers...contrary...We must be optimists
we still believe love is worth a try.
wife has been on the two week injection for about 3 months. It took about a
month to kick in and for about a month and half after that she felt good , was
more appreciative of things and with a bit sleep meds she sleeps well. Just now
I am noticing a slight change for the worse.
Since this disease is degenertive the meds the dosage should be controlled accordingly. She is on the absoulte minimum. Since she is on a CTO community treatment order, I can have the dosage upped but she is not cooperating and as usual starting to blame the meds for the way she feels.
My advice is if she is on the injection and you notice a positive change (you will) is to somehow change the environment/routine she has been use to.
Thank you for your input, Sandyman, regarding the injectable Resperdal. I didn't
know, when I posted the question above, that she is also taking a Resperdal pill
once a day along with her 4 Lithium pills a day. Either today (Tueday) or
Thursday she goes for her 2nd injection.
I wonder if the pill, with the shot, helps get it into her system faster? You say about a month for effect. I have already noticed the change in her personality and demeanor for the good. But she is still a little defensive about the whole thing. But no paranoid talk, no voices in her head. so far.
Please post your wife's progress on these meds. I will do the same.
(short for hello)
Your (wife’s?) story is amazing and you are an excellent writer. The moment when your wife doubts the child is related to her, and yet she wished it was, is an awsome poetry. Don’t change anything.
All antipsychotics have disastrous side effects. Because of them I now walk and talk and move like a robot. Its funny, I am a caricature now. Plus she is on lithium! Huh, drug coctail. You might like to know that bipolar people like their 'highs'. They are kind of addicted to it. Teach her to see the positive side; if she is all drowsy, tired and lightheaded for the first few hours in the morning, she still has lots of time to enjoy the rest of the day. Sexual dysfunction, obesity, apathy, involuntary movements, feeling of impending doom. Don’t dismiss this complains. Show her the superman’s picture in a weal chair. How about his luck, ask her. You want to get over 50, and nothing wrong with you, huh.
But all this only if she realizes she has a problem. When this happens her meds may get reduced.
(short for hello)
Your (wife’s?) story is amazing and you are an excellent writer. The moment when your wife doubts the child is related to her, and yet she wished it was, is an awsome poetry. Don’t change anything.
All antipsychotics have disastrous side effects. Because of them I now walk and talk and move like a robot. Its funny, I am a caricature now. Plus she is on lithium! Huh, drug coctail. You might like to know that bipolar people like their 'highs'. They are kind of addicted to it. Teach her to see the positive side; if she is all drowsy, tired and lightheaded for the first few hours in the morning, she still has lots of time to enjoy the rest of the day. Sexual dysfunction, obesity, apathy, involuntary movements, feeling of impending doom. Don’t dismiss this complains. Show her the superman’s picture in a weal chair. How about his luck, ask her. You want to get over 50, and nothing wrong with you, huh.
But all this only if she realizes she has a problem. When this happens her meds may get reduced.
does your wife look younger than her age?
It was me, why me?...with the previous quetsion
both look younger than our real age (I think), by what other people say about
Some times when she is manic mode and very delusional, her face takes on a drawn look, her eyes bulge, the circles under them are more pronounced, and I am reminded that she is not 22 anymore.
Whyme, you must have read a lot of my earlier posts to pick up on the grandchild fiasco. Poetry?? I guess there is a sadness that she couldn't believe the reality that she really is a grandmother. She was afraid that it was a trick to give her something, and then snatch it away and disappoint her. We have talked about this issue. She says she wasn't denying her granddaughter, to be mean, but to protect herself and her feelings.
Hopefully, the Saturday before Easter our daughter will bring over the granddaughter so we can all get reaquainted. At least that is the present arrangement. I hope nothing goes wrong with that.
My wife does not appear to have any side effects from the Resperdal or Lithium, yet. I hope it stays that way.
Yes I read everything in a single breath. I love confessions. You might not see the
poetry there because its a
daily routine for you, but I am an outsider and I tend to 'forget' all the
screaming and bad feelings that go there and just see an amazing cuople.
Beatiful Mind has fascinated the world, yet Nash's wife devorced her husband
promptly when he got ill-not fascinated at all.I often go OCD site and I piss
myself laughing on the detailed descriptions of the silly trubles people
indure-everything is funny as long as it happens to others.
My psychitrist told me that I look 15 years younger and that all schz's do.We are punished in one way and reworded in onether.
Good for your wife she doesnt have side effects. Some psychitrist have told me nothing is wrong with me just because I have so many side effects. A weired way to make dignoses, but psychitry is a guessing game.
Hey, bsc, I was just horrified reading over the last couple of my posts... did I really type that my daughter was going "oversees?" Good heavens. I hope your holidays were good & things are balancing out with your wife. I only had bad experiences w/ Risperidal w/ my hubby, and my brother-in-law did well on lithium but had, well, diarrhea, & regularly complained that he had to continue to take it. Diagnosed Psychso-Effective, he backed off his "hearing voices" meds himself & ended up overdosing on the lithium (the voices told him to) so now he can't take it anymore. He was doing OK on Ablify for almost 2 years then it jacked him up so much he ended up in the hospital again, not having any sleep for a couple of days. Lithium was best for him. Abilify still seems to be "working" for my husband, though, but he's only taking 5 mg last I inquired. At least he's taking that, or I'd surely notice! Anyway, everything OK still? Been thinking about you.
guess it's time for an update. My wife has been busy several days a week
visiting social workers, getting her Resperdal shot, seeing her psych, etc. Its
more "social" life than she has had in a long time. She almost enjoys it since
it gives her something to do, places to go, and people to talk to. She has been
so isolated for a long time.
Everything I just wrote sounds optimistic, but there is still an undercurrent of something in her voice, her attitude, some of her old delusional thinking she refers to, but doesn't say she believes in.
She still says she misses her manic modes when she was so smart and energetic, she could do anything. She says she wishes she really was that way.
I think she is taking her Lithium. The Resprdal is injected every 2 weeks so she can't miss that. In fact, if she doesn't show up for her appoinment, the guardian atty is called to find out where she is. Since she knows that, she probably won't miss the shot to keep out of trouble.
The hearing for "permanent" guardianship was this past Monday morning. Unbeknown to be, she retained her own atty to help her out at the hearing, against the guardian atty I hired. They got a continuance for a few weeks so the new atty could get familiar with the case. I did not go, not did I have to since I put in an appearance by signing my consent.
The irony here is that her new atty is one I had made an appointment with to get a divorce a few months back. I never did keep the appointment, so it doesn't matter.
My wife is very upset about this guardianship business. She wants me to call it off. She was trying to get it down to 6 months from 1 year. She says since we are getting along so well, and she promises to take her meds, there is no reason why a stranger should be involved in our lives. I told her that if there is no problems about her behavior, she will never have any additional contact with her guardian.
I talked to my inlaws about it. They think I should force it to go at least 6 months, with a reevaluation at that time.
My wife hates me for getting her (us) into this. Naturally.
In a few weeks my life will change again. I finally found a job closer to home, where I could be home every night. I should be careful what I wish for.
is an update. You haven't heard from me since things "seem" to have improved.
She had a second hearing in the probate court to see if she could get her
guardianship reduced to 6 months. They still went with a year, with the
possibilty of reviewing in 6 months.
The good part about this is she is taking her meds. Showing up faithfully to get her Resperdal shot every 2 weeks, and taking her Lithium daily. She was off of it for 3 to 4 days while she had her leg operation last week, at the recommend of her Dr. She is fearful that she will be in trouble and is trying to avoid that. She has 2 attys watching out for her and giving her advice. Some of it even against me.
The meds do mask the symptoms but underneath she is still DD and/or Bipolar manic. I can tell by her attitude about things. She still talks about the delusions in a confused way. She will say, I think such and such happened but I am not sure. She does now admit outwardly that she has a problem. She was not afraid to tell some people that she is bipolar.
I can live with this as long as it can last. Now finishing my first week in the new job closer to home. We are together every night. That is making her happier and easier to get along with. She also knows that if her crap starts again, I will leave her. She knows that if she keeps taking her meds, I will be happy. Maybe staying together is the motivation. Whatever works.....
It is funny. The main reason my husband got back onto meds is that I spoke to an attorney to divorce him. I think he realized that he will lose his whole family.
there a "be careful what you ask for?" here? My husband, several times, went
back on his meds when I made the threat to leave if he did not. Then he said go
ahead and leave.
And I am happier, alone, but happy. And he is happier, crazy, but happy, as far as I can make out.
Things work out. My ex, unlike many on these postings, can function in life (at least so far) without medication - all the meds did was enable us to continue to live together, but it was as a nurse-patient relationship rather than the partnership of a marriage that I wanted. I have come to conclude that that was not enough of a reason for him to stay on such powerful drugs forever. Perhaps his new wife will be able to be a better nurse than I could. Time will tell.
The medications my husband was on did not make his delusions go away, they just enabled him to control his outbursts, but he never stopped thinking of me as someone I wasn't. How is it for those of you with medicated spouses? Do you feel you are caretakers or married partners?
husband can not function without meds. He does not get out of the house, would
not take a shower and acts only in reponse to his delusions (calling the police,
hiring electricians to get wires out of walls etc). When he stopped taking his
meds, he quit going to work. So, without meds, our relationship is very very
strained. And yes, I do feel like a psychiatric nurse then.
But, when he is on meds, our relationship is almost normal. We can have a relatively normal conversation without getting into sensitive subjects, like government spying. I don't think myself as a care-taker when he is on meds. But our relationship is nothing like what it was pre-DD.
thought about all of this too...becoming a caretaker/nurse/counselor instead of
lover/friend/confidant. in the end, i couldn't handle it. there is a theory out
there that delusions are the person's attempt to avoid taking responsibility for
themselves, and they use the delusions as a way to gain help --in the form of
benefits, care, attention, money, etc. from those around them. Essentially, they
are unable to face the fact that we must all fend for ourselves, and to attract
benefits from others (aid and help) they invent the delusions. however, i stress
that this is totally unconcious on their part. their mind does the tricking.
Here is a link to the story:
http://itb.biologie.hu-berlin.de/~hagen ... usions.pdf
i recently met somebody new who seems to want the same things i want out of life, and i've started to heal and see light at the end of the tunnel from this nightmare of DD. I can't blame anyone for leaving. the DD people seems to be oblivious when we leave anyway, since they are so absorbed in the delusions...it was much harder on me than him. but i am so glad i got out when i did and moved on.
Some people posting here have been doing this DD thing for years and years. i didn't want to still be in this dark place one, two, or ten years from now. it was hard, but leaving was the smartest and best thing i ever did. his next woman can be his nurse...until he decides to brand her a whore. then he'll move on and find a new caretaker...on and on. one thing's for sure....he CANNOT take care of himself. i'm doing so much better, and so i can honestly say i'm so glad i got out when i did.
read the article listed above. it might help somebody whose still obsessed with the whys.
Goodwife's spouse, my husband can't function without Meds. He can't work and
can't function within our family either (look after kids, cook meals ect). He is
too fearful to even leave the house, answer the phone or even look at the
On meds he is a different person. The delusions have faded until they are almost a memory and if things happen that use to bother him, that he would bring into the delusion, he now just lets pass as though they don't matter and they don't
They have just decreased his meds and he is now almost back to normal, with hardly any side effects. So now he seems more like a partner then a patient. Hopefully things will continue along like they have been and maybe DD will be a thing of the past.
- It sounds like you are saying he is geetting cured. That would be great. I
didn't know the meds could actually cure someone of this condition. I thought
they would need them forever.
I am not trying to discourage you, but be cautious. Almost everyone's experience here on the forum has been that once meds are reduced or eliminated, the problems come back even stronger.
My wifes Dr told her that the Reperdal shot she is getting every 2 weeks is the least dosage prescribed. She even told her that the lithium she is taking could be skipped under certain conditions.
Her other "contacts" in the mental health care system, and the lawyers, are poopooing the need for constant vigilance that she take her meds. Every time she quotes these other people, I become afraid that all I've done will be undermined by do-gooders who take my wifes side against me. That I am the mean husband trying to keep my wife under control.
They have never seen her when she is full blown delusional, screaming at everyone and everything.I don't care whether they call it bipolar manic, or schizo, or DD, the destructive effect is the same. The meds help control it - she must take them. Of course she seems normal to them, because since they have known her, she ha