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Tragic Coping with Delusional Disorder of the Jealous Type (DDJ)

 

To date, it seems that there are relatively very few large scale scientific studies and reports on Delusional Disorder (DD). This is because there are very few DD inpatients in the psychiatric hospital, only about 2-5%. But, the number of people with DD could be large in the world as seen in the Delusional Disorder Forum (http://www.psychforums.com:80/delusional-disorder/).


     All the passages below are taken from the Delusional Disorder Forum and was initiated by Bri  from Dec 2008 to March 2011

 

 

1. I Got DDJ (You) Babe" - Sonny & Cher

by Bri » Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:06 pm

"I Got You Babe" takes on a whole new meaning for people dealing with DDJ, doesn't it? Ah, well...just an attempt to humor myself. Laughter is so hard to find in this illness. You have a better chance at seeing a leprechaun.

Anyway, I found this forum almost a week back, but my account did not activate, so I had to write the administrator. In the mean time, I've read almost every word of every thread. Let me say, I am NEVER up at this hour, but something woke me up, and I could not go back to sleep. I checked my email and when I saw my account had finally been activated, I could not help myself in posting.

I've been through hell in the past year. My man is DDJ. I don't want to get long winded here, but one thing that has been EXTREMELY hard is NOT HAVING SUPPPORT with this. I have been isolated, uninformed, and misunderstood by friends (even abandoned by a friend I had for 28 years). I have no family, except a son, who is grown). I have been scofffed at, b*tched at, and flat avoided. All this....FROM THE OUTSIDERS. Add that to what I've been dealing with from my DDJ and you can see why I'm so desparate for support. I have felt like an alien walking among "the humans" and coming here was like finding MY OWN PEOPLE!

In the past few months, I finally figured out what was wrong (through my own effort and research), so I'm informed now (thank God). And, while that has helped me intellectually, it has not helped emotionally. I am a train wreck. Anyway, I have so many questions and comments, but I will stop now (lucky you) and go to bed. I just wanted to introduce myself, vent a little, and say THANK GOD I FOUND YOU GUYS!

Bri

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by qwerty » Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:55 pm

welcome Bri.

I know the feeling. It's been almost a year now since I found this site & I still look forward to checking in.

As you have read, there are several 'DDJ ladies' who read & post here. Hopefully 2009 will be a better year for you than 2008.

qwerty

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Local time: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:17 am

 

by bsc » Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:43 pm

Welcome indeed Bri.

Sounds like you have a good sense of humor. Although there is nothing funny about this, it is certainly better to laugh, or at least chuckle to yourself, than to cry. But tears are certainly appropriate. They may also help you feel better.

Any and all contributions of your experience and feelings with DD are welcome, even if you think we've heard them before. This is your place to vent, scream , cry, be funny, poetic, or write your next novel. We understand.

bsc

Posts: 436

Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:14 am

Local time: Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:17 pm

 

by Bri » Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:01 am

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I NEED YOU GUYS!

I tried to keep my story to a mimimum, as all of you already know the gory details of how this works, but it still wound up lengthier than I planned. Sorry, but I have questions about some quirks he has and I had to give you the framework.

My DDJ has left. This is the 5th time and each time he does this, he's gone longer and longer in between. The first time, I wasn't aware of his "problem" really. He had been the perfect man for 5 months (not a peep). One day, a male friend of mine brought a coat by I had left at his house more than a year before. I wasn't home and my DDJ handled it. However, my DDJ thought I was "involved" with this friend, was extremely upset, and could not be convinced the man was just my friend. When my DDJ left a week later, I thought he just dumped me. 5 days later, he came back. I honestly believed he just had a moment, realized he had been wrong, and came back to work things out.

Our Second Effort was not as smooth. He was still a wonderful man that treated me like a princess, but he had changed too. He was suspicious and quick to temper. I ignored it. He started relentlessly questioning me, but seemed to accept my answers (although reluctantly). I came home from work one day, and he was just gone. Again, I thought he'd just decided he couldn't trust me, maybe was afraid of commitment, and just left. 8 days later, he came back.

Our Third Effort was tough. He was suspicious every day. He questioned relentlessly, but no longer accepted ANY of my defenses. We would fight all night and new behaviors surfaced. He started watching the windows, hearing voices, and the accusations, which at one time had at least been grounded in reality (a man really did bring a coat), became more bizarre and no longer had any basis in reality. This is the point I realized there was something more going on than just a jealous moment over a coat. Since I have never dealt with this before, I made a lot of mistakes with him, but using common sense, I figured out ways to keep the fires down. Things were a little better, however, in the end, he left again. 11 days later, he came back.

Our Fourth Effort was much the same. Fighting all night, watching out the windows, hearing voices, but again, new behaviors. Now he thinks the house is cammed and bugged. He searches for hours looking for these devices, including on my body. To make this short, he sat me down one day and said he just couldn't take it anymore. I begged him to see a doctor, but he wouldn't hear of it. I cried and cried, and he seemed sympathetic, but was determined to go. He stayed gone 32 days. I thought I had really lost him for good. However, he came back and we tried again.

Our Fifth Effort was pretty decent (all things considered). He seemed to be committed to making this work. He was loving and did not act up for 5 weeks straight. Not one word. One day, he made a comment and I just asked him outright if he was going to "start in" again. He said no, but 2 days later, he did. I told him if he was going to start again, he had to know where it would lead (him leaving), and asked him did we REALLY want to go down that road. I told him he needed to get a grip or all would be lost. He tried very hard for the next week to be good, but it got the best of him, and he went into a full blown episode that was the worst yet. He left 5 days after Thanksgiving.

I say all this to ask this. (1) I noticed several people's DDJ here have never left. They make all the accusations, etc., but they don't go anywhere. If they do, it's been when the spouse/partner has kicked them out. Why does he keep leaving if he's coming back?? I've NEVER put him out or told him to leave. He just does it. (2) Another quirk is that in between his cycles or at the end of them, he will suddenly turn to me and say "Sorry, baby. Sorry." I never ask him what he's sorry for, and I never reject his sorry (like saying well la de da, you've been an ass, so I'm not accepting it). I just hold him and stay quiet. I know what he means, so we don't discuss it, but I feel like he would not do this if he didn't have SOME SENSE that something was wrong with him. (3) When he "leaves" (in case you're wondering), he goes to an isolated country town 2 hours away. He goes in the woods for days at a time fishing and hunting by himself. He does not leave to run the streets, drink or drug, hang out with people, or socialize in any way. He isolates himself, then comes out, and comes home.

I would appreciate ANY commentary on these things. He's been gone 3 weeks now. I haven't spoken to him once, which is unusual because even when he's gone, he'll call me (even if only to gripe at me). I didn't even hear from him at Christmas (ouch that hurt). I'm sitting in limbo wondering what to do. Part of me says, let him go, and part of me says, fish him back, sit him down, give him the information regarding his illness, ask him to see a doctor, and then let the chips fall where they may. All of you know (you must) how hard it is to let someone go that you love with all your heart. I'm worried about him.

Bri

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by alwaysfaithful » Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:48 pm

Hi Bri and welcome

 

by Bri » Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:19 am

alwaysfaithful:

Thanks for posting. No, we are not married. But you said you were married 23 years and I'm assuming he never got medical help? You said he left 15 months ago. Was it the only time or has he left many times and come back?

I've asked him in the past to see a doctor for his headaches and general unwellness (he feels sick quite a bit). Of course, I was hoping they would "see" something or give him anti-depressants because his bizarre behavior made me think "chemical imbalance." I never knew there was an actual disorder with a label and a whole science behind it until recently. I desperately want to share this information with him, yet I feel since I am "the enemy", it might be the worst thing I can do. I have been talking to his sister, who believes me that something is wrong, but she doesn't want to jeapordize their relationship either, which I can't really blame her. All I know is SOMEBODY HAS TO TELL HIM or give him the information. Then, you're right, we've done all we can do.

Last edited by Bri on Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bri

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Local time: Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:17 pm

 

by alwaysfaithful » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:53 pm

Hi Bri, Yes, he left once and never came back. We had another property that was empty at the time and he moved in. He never sought medical help in the sense that something was wrong with him. He went to a psychiatrist once and told him "My wife is cheating on me and I feel like I'm going crazy". That was very early on, before I realized that he actually believed the things he was saying. If I had known, I would have insisted he take me along to refute the things he told him. It probably would have turned into a "Yes she did", "no I didn't" thing anyway. When I found the information on DDJ, I was really excited. I showed him the article and he got soooo mad. After I got a lie detector test and passed, he believed me for a few days and suggested he get tested for a brain tumor or something physical. Since he moved out, he has had not one second of doubt as far as I know, that I am a terrible person and he is doing everything in his power to screw me over in the divorce settlement. I don't know what his family thinks anymore. They are all from out of state and won't speak to me. They were all crazy about me, mind you. I just can't imagine, and this is the biggest mystery to me, how has he convinced people that I cheated, with no evidence? Even the really dumb, made up stuff isn't the slightest bit convincing. The most damaging "evidence" he had was that I left for work one hour early one night (I didn't). AND YOU"RE THROWING AWAY A 23 YEAR MARRIAGE FOR THAT???? Anyway, I have zero hope that his "memories" will ever go away unless he has a labodamy or something. I just want to get this behind me and move on. I know I will never love anyone like I loved him. Based on all I have read on this sight, there isn't much hope. I really respect the decision of those who have decided to stay, but unfortunatley, we don't get another life to seek happiness. Good luck!!

alwaysfaithful

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Local time: Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:17 pm

 

by Bri » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:13 am

alwaysfaithful:

I don't know if this helps, but I was also worried about him convincing others (his friends/family) I was bad. I mean, really, how could they know? They didn't know me that well. What I found out through time was his family/friends are WELL AWARE he is "off" and do NOT take to heart everything he says (thank God). However, the way they respond to this situation when confronted seems to go one of two ways. They will acknowledge to you they "know" about the DDJ's condition, but they are quick to change the subject. They don't want any trouble. And considering you (or me) are the "outsiders", we aren't valuable enough in their lives for them to risk breaking with the DDJ. The other type of response is they are too afraid to acknowledge it AT ALL and hiding from us is the only way they can avoid us asking again. It "appears" they turn their backs (siding with the DDJ or don't like us), but I found that not to be the case. They just have their own fears. I suppose there are cases where the parents (in-laws) do NOT believe the DDJ has a problem. Maybe in the early time of the illness when they had always been fine before. But anyone who has been connected to a DDJ in a personal way (family/friends) for any length of time eventually sees and hears the bizarre behavior. Chances are you husband's parents are not avoiding you because they DON'T believe you. They're avoiding you because they DO! Okay, I'm rambling.....

Bri

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by barney4oz » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:49 pm

http://www.youtube.com/user/Barney4Oz

I GOT U BABE>>> I hope this brings smile on your face... Cheers...!!!

barney4oz

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                        ---------------------------------------------

2. Navigating the War Zone (DDJ)

by Bri » Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:44 am

Not having a CLUE about this illness (DDJ), I struggled and made LOTS of mistakes before I figured out what worked and what didn't. Being a logical person, I kept pushing logical answers and obvious evidence toward my DDJ believing it would help. IT DOES NOT. Let me repeat that. IT DOES NOT. When I figured out "something" was wrong (it had no name yet), I realized I would have to handle things differently. It was through trial and error that I got any clue. I have to be honest and tell you, however, that he has left me (again), so I have no magic answers here. I can only say these things helped WHILE WE WERE TOGETHER. This may not help your DDJ at all, but we're all desparate to try anything aren't we?

(1) Many in this forum have commented about how debating them does no good. They are right. Answering their questions with simple replies and not feeding their delusions is absolutely best. I used to think if I argued with him long enough, presented enough evidence, that he would "get it." He NEVER did. As a matter of fact, the LESS I SAID, the faster the episode went away. I told him once (realizing he had a problem) that if he needed to ask me things to feel better, he was welcome to, but I would only answer the question ONCE. I would not go over and over the same ground. It was hard to stick to at first. He tried EVERYTHING to bait me. But when I stuck it out, and he found I wasn't breaking, he just asked his question, then moved on. This cut down on the HOURS OF QUESTIONING AND ARGUING.

(2) I noticed when he worked (job), we fought FAR LESS. It's as if his mind was too busy to dwell on negative thoughts. Then, he LOVES TO COOK, so he would get home, want to talk about his day, cook dinner (something that makes him happy), we'd watch the news or a movie, then bed. He almost didn't have enough time to obsess. When he was off work, he'd go through the house, fixate on an idea, stew about it all day, then pounce at me when I got home. The nights were horrible. Working and cooking made a difference in the amount of hours he had to ruminate negative thoughts.

(3) I found this one quite by accident. I asked him to play a game of cards one night. I noticed he was very focused on the game. I asked him the next night, and we played again. Strangely...no episodes. One day, he was having a fit, we went round and round. Almost kidding, I say in the middle of this fight, "Wanna play cards?" And, amazingly, he says "Yeah." He was all grouchy and reluctant ACTING (because keep in mind, I've been BAD), but he says he'll play. As we played the game, he calmed down and he was normal again for the rest of the night. When cards got boring, I asked him to play Scrabble. He'd never played in his life. I didn't think he'd like it, but weirdly, he loved it. We spent HOURS playing ONE GAME. I can tell you, on those nights we played Scrabble, he had LESS HOURS TO CONJURE UP BAD THOUGHTS. If he started showing signs of tension and suspicion, I'd say, "Scrabble?" And he'd say, "Yeah."

(4) I never understood why documented in-your-face "evidence" did NOT help??? It actually made him madder!! I even told him once, "Normal people who are in doubt and worried, who can review evidence that will make their fears go away, would be THRILLED to have the opportuity. Why are you so mad instead of glad that your fears can be put aside?" He would just look at me because even HE could not answer that. In Dr. Sharma's book, Insane Jealousy, he says the DDJ only sees "evidence" as the opportunity to "be right" slipping away. Evidence of innocence makes the DDJ feel that the situation is not being taken seriously and that his opinion is not being respected. I believe he is right, as my DDJ said MANY TIMES he did not feel like his views were being respected. The helpful hint here is, I QUIT pushing documented evidence in his face. It did no good, it made him madder, and it only fed the delusion because then he believed the "evidence producer" was also "in on it."

(5) This one kind of goes along with #2 and #3 in keeping their mind busy. It's a little sneaky, but done WITH LOVE! Figuring out that keeping his mind busy was key, I had to get creative with "ways" to do that. Weekends meant he would not be on a job, or there would be nights he didn't cook, or we didn't play games. That's TOO MUCH free time for him to start conjuring. So.....mysteriously (ha ha), things around the house started going bad. The trim fell off, the dryer belt came off, the wheel on the lawnmower came off. I needed 6 light fixtures taken down, so I could clean them. I needed the vacuum fixed. I think you get my meaning here. He'd grumble about the inconvenience of it all, but my DJ LOVES to feel needed, so he'd set about fixing things (less time to conjure).

Anyway, I don't pretend ANY of these things will help you. I can only hope. If you have found ANY successful do's or dont's, I would LOVE to hear them.

Bri

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by bsc » Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:39 am

Very good BRI - the art of distraction. I work my grandchildren that way when they start fighting with each other.

When my wife was at the height of her mania, she would ask me to play Pente or cards. We did sometimes, and she liked it when she beat me. After a while I learned not to throw the game on purpose.

As these games do bore me after an hour I would stop playing. This would upset her, and sometimes would she would go on to her usual paranoia. But when distracted she would forget about it for a while.

You are on to something. You might also try just changing the subject to something they be interested in, hobbies, politics, current events, etc.

In any case, it is not a cure, but a temporary reprieve - something to give their overly active minds something else to think about.

bsc

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by leavingthedarkness » Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:18 am

Wow BRI, I wish that you have posted earlier. But on the other hand, my DDJ is good in puting on a "pretence." He even fooled our pschologist, so the outcome probably would still be the same.

I especially agreed with your number 4. My DDJ was quick to point out that my polygraph was not trustworthy, because "you could be the one that the examiner missed". I have experienced so many logical arguments being twisted and misinterpretated. At the end, He called me "the master spinner and manipulator".

We have proceeded to divoice. It was not my choice. He does not want any reconciliation. Instead, he started dating and spent nites with his new lady 2 wks after he moved out on us.

I have moved from grieving to surviving. I have 2 young children to protect.

Our pschologist gave me a poem that she said reminded her of me, it is from EE Cummings :

it may not always be so; and i say
that if your lips, which i have loved, should touch
another's, and your dear strong fingers clutch
his heart, as mine in time not far away;
if on another's face your sweet hair lay
in such a silence as i know, or such
great writhing words as, uttering overmuch,
stand helplessly before the spirit at bay;
if this should be, i say if this should be—

you of my heart, send me a little word;
that i may go unto him, and take his hands,
saying, Accept all happiness from me.
Then shall i turn my face, and hear one bird
sing terribly afar in the lost lands.
-ee cummings, 1923

Good luck to everyone on the forum. I fought so hard to stay in the marriage. Now I can only allow myself to look at the direction where the light is shinning at the end of the tunnel. The kids need me.

leavingthedarkness

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by Bri » Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:03 am

THANK YOU ALL FOR RESPONDING! I have been so alone in this and it's nice to talk to people who understand!

bsc:

I was actually going to buy Pente for us! And, yes, turning the discussion to things he's interested in helped too. He LOVES to gripe about the news, politics, and weather. ANY of those subjects would keep him happy. I have NEVER been a big eater, but I knew if I kept food in the house, and he started acting up, all I would have to say is, "Honey, will you make me something?" His eyes would light up and he'd be ON IT! Now I have to tell you something strange. You would think eating LOTS of food would make me fatter, yet I lost about 25 lbs. I don't know if it's because it was all made from scratch (not boxed or canned) and it's healthier, so you can eat more and lose weight...or....if it was the stress of the relationship (or both)? I don't know. All I can say is I lost a lot of weight eating all his cooking! HAHA!

punishedwife:

I don't know you at all, but I can sense you are hurting. Maybe it's because I AM TOO. There is such a sense of LOSS giving up on an idea - a dream - we had with them. You are also dealing with him being involved with another woman. Mine has not yet, but I will tell you IT'S MY GREATEST FEAR. I will break inside when this happens. I see you gather strength from knowing your kids need you. My son is grown now, but I can't tell you how many times as a single mom that HE ALONE was the reason I got out of bed, went to work, or had a PURPOSE. I don't know if I would have been strong enough to keep on each day had I not known he was watching me - counting on me. We often will do for our children that which we would never do just for ourselves. As painful as all this is, your kids (when nothing else can) will be the reason you'll SURVIVE. Love them like there's no tomorrow...(as I'm sure you do).

Bri

Posts: 187

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Local time: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:26 pm

 

by Bri » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:54 am

Just wanted to add a note here for those trying to decide to stay with their DDJ or not. If you do decide to stay, realize that this is the MOST SACRIFICIAL relationship you will ever have. Maybe even more so than with your own children. The way you handle a DDJ goes against EVERYTHING you ever learned about relationships and boundaries.

If you are selfish, busy, demanding, or proud; weak, insecure, or needy; if you like deadlines, accountability, straightforwardness, security, promises, or commitments, etc., THIS IS NOT FOR YOU! GET OUT NOW! Maintaining complete neutrality and loving them UNCONDITIONALLY (and I mean that literally) are absolute musts in handling a DDJ. If you cannot do this, you have already lost the battle. Take your gun and go home.

Everybody comes to a place where the finally realize what DDJ is all about, that it's uncurable, and difficult to treat. After you get through the I'm SO ANGRY and it's all SO UNFAIR stage, you come to a point of acceptance, which then leads to you having to make a decision - Stay? or Go? One thing that goes round and round in my mind when I'm trying to make this decision is...If I stay, it means I ACCEPT this illness and ALL THAT GOES WITH IT. So, every bad thing he's ever done or said in relation to this problem is acceptable. That he will do it again is acceptable. That when you make a decision to stay, you are saying that you accept ALL of it. You don’t get to pick and choose the behaviors you want or don't want. IT'S ALL OR NOTHING.

This abolutely means you will be tolerating things you always learned were UNHEALTHY. You will have no boundaries, you will give no ultimatums. You cannot draw lines in the sand and expect results. All expected behavior you have learned through your human experience will NOT APPLY. It's a perfect picture of unpredictability. Neither manipulation nor reason will work with a DDJ. You will live a life where it is played out moment by moment with NO GUARANTEES. This way of life is probably impossible for most.

I want to give some examples to give a clear picture of what you are facing, but it's 3 am! LOL! I will have to come back and do a follow up post. Until then....

Bri

Posts: 187

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Local time: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:26 pm

 

by peace2u » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:54 pm

Hi Bri, you're right of course, especially in the case of untreated DD. The problem is that all human beings have those needs you mentioned, they are normal and healthy--to be happy, well balanced people those needs must be met (at least to a degree), or we run the risk of becoming unhealthy and unbalanced ourselves. I think the number of people able to negate the self completely while staying balanced is so infinitesimally small as to be negligible.

We affect each other profoundly: the anger, pain and sorrow in the pages of this forum is evidence of our deep mutuality as human beings. Over time we create each other: if I live with someone who exudes love, kindness and generosity, I will become that, and if I live with someone who exudes anger, resentment and unhappiness I will become that. (For it to be otherwise will take so much focused energy that it will completely overwhelm the rest of your life.)

I'm not saying it is impossible to live with someone who has DD. But circumstances will dictate whether it is possible or not. My husband has persecutory DD and has never accused me of anything--he has remained kind and loving--plus he has been on meds from day one, and although he has no insight (yes, I agree completely that it is incurable) the illness is definitely contained by the meds and it is possible for us to live in harmony.

Good luck and take care.

peace2u

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by Bri » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:20 am

I've learned so much since the last time I was here (in this thread). It's kind of weird re-reading things I said. Anyway, just thought I'd add a note by saying the last time my DDJ was here, he started playing Texas Hold Em poker online (fulltiltpoker.net). Much like the Scrabble game, it kept his mind busy. It's not played with real money and is free to sign up. However, I hate to recommend something if your partner has an addictive personality. Don't want anyone to turn into a chronic gambler or start using real money! HA! I'm just always looking for positive activities to keep him busy, so he doesn't have time to ruminate on negative crap when he's home.

Also, this may not be an option for many of you, but I found since he has the most problems staying here at the house, it's easier for me to see him on his territory. I go spend time with him at his mom's or sisters as much as possible and keep the time he's here to a minimum. He feels safer on his own ground and doesn't have nearly as many delusions. I used to give him a hard time about not being home, that I needed him HERE, but I realized I had to do what was best for us (not necessarily what I wanted). If him living somewhere else meant we still could be together, I was willing to sacrifice my desire for him to be home. It's one of the toughest things I've had to do to save us. I miss him very much when he's gone and it can be weeks or even months before I see him again face to face. But this tactic has another purpose as well. You see, if things don't work out in the end, you've already practiced living without them.

Last thing...I noticed I use the word "however" a lot in my posts (hehe). Just so you know, I've worked in a law office most of my life, so it is something I use every day in preparing letters, etc. Attorney garbledy-gook. Okay, just laughing at myself.......

Bri

Posts: 187

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:06 am

Local time: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:26 pm

 

by Bri » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:13 am

Navigating....navigating.....

I come back here to add new things that I believe helps in our "situation".

(1) I've mentioned before that being on their (DDJ) own territory is best. When my DDJ has his family around, he feels safer, thus he has less delusions. Or, if he still has them, he can compare himself to them (Did they hear that? Did they see that?). When he sees they didn't...he relaxes. He does not trust me, but he does trust that his family would not "trick" him. So, if THEY didn't hear or see it, it must have been "nothing". When we are alone...everything is suspect...and he doesn't trust my input. It's also interesting to note that I've recently found DDJs do better in relationships if they live in the country...away from cars, neighbors, people. This is not to say the country FIXES the problem, I think there is JUST LESS stimulation for the brain to misinterpret. If you have ANY possible means to live in the country and it would cause no hardship for you to, I believe it would help. When I spend time with my DDJ in the country, we rarely have DDJ problems. When he is with me here in the city, he has a problem 24/7/365. There is just TOO MUCH STIMULATION.

(2) If you know about the dopamine link to DD, you will understand that elevated dopamine causes HYPERSENSITIVITY. Like drug addicts, this makes all signals coming into the brain magnified. Light is brighter, sound is louder, touch can be touchy (<----haha). For the longest time when me and my DDJ would argue, he would CONSTANTLY halt the debate and say, "You are YELLING!" I would stop and think..."Yes, my voice is elevated, as anyone's is when they get frustrated, but in NO WAY am I yelling." I thought it was odd, but didn't know about hypersensitivity at the time. Time and again, he would stop us. Then he'd get so mad at my "yelling", he would refuse to talk with me anymore. Sometimes even walking out. As you know, if someone will not converse with you, you cannot get anything figured out. Once I understood about hypersensitivity, I had to make an extra point to keep my voice low (because remember it DOES sound loud to them). I noticed when I did this, he was much calmer, did not interrupt me, or stop the conversation. Just recently, in the middle of a talk, he told me I was getting loud. Instead of rolling my eyes and smarting off, I simply used it as ANOTHER TOOL to keep his "condition" on the table. I said, "I'm sorry. You're right. I forget that YOU ARE HYPERSENSITIVE DUE TO YOUR CONDITION. I will lower my voice." It was amazing that while he didn't like the "your condition" comment, he was appreciative that I apologized for my loudness and was more than willing to listen to the rest of what I had to say. Amazing............

(3) The last thing today I want to yak about is "LAUGHTER"! I know you're thinking "LAUGHTER?" With DDJ? Yeah, right!" But I'm telling you....laughter is a potent medicine. A long time ago, on my own journey to find myself, I realized that YES, LIFE IS HARD! And furthermore, NO ONE was going to make it better. Life can be so dreary and it's easy to get depressed (and even STAY there). One day, I realized that no "Fun Truck" was going to pull up to the front of my house and serve me up some "fun"! That no "Laughter Fairy" was going to waive her wand and make me happy. The idea that I could create my own fun (and laughter with it) had never occurred to me. Then one day it did. I'm sure you'll think I'm crazy now when I tell you from that day on I created in my mind my own little "alter world" where I get to be the director. No matter WHAT is going on around me, I look for what's funny in it. If there is nothing, I make it. What would the comedian say on stage about this situation? HAHA! When all that fails, I simply throw my hands up and LAUGH LAUGH LAUGH! I mean, after all, mood starts with an attitude - and attitude starts with a decision. Sure, I could cry, cry, cry. And believe me, I've done PLENTY OF THAT. But you can decide, in the moment, how will I handle this? I can be up or I can be down. After the decision, everything else follows. Whenever possible in a crisis, try and choose UP. With that follows a good attitude, which then follows a good mood. You can go through a hard thing LAUGHING or CRYING...it's up to you...

This is something I've tried to teach my DDJ. Not by words or lectures, but by example. He spends HOURS AND HOURS having delusions and searching for evidence, and I spend hours and hours joking with him, being silly, or finding every way in a day that I can bring him to laughter. I'll admit, he IS HARD. The nature of DD doesn't WANT HIM TO LAUGH...it wants him to stay angry and suspicious. But laughter must have its own power because I've seen him over and over try and resist laughing (or finding me funny), yet he will burst out anyway - against his will even. We have been in the midst of heated arguments, where I've just suddenly walked up to him, put my nose to his nose, and said "Quack Quack"! OHHH, he wanted to BE SOOO MAD...but he couldn't help himself. He broke down and laughed. There have been times, he's tried using it against me by saying, "I KNOW what you're doing. You're trying to distract me so I can't hear the men outside," or, "Oh, you're being funny because you're smug. You think you're getting away with something." On the occasions he does that, I simply say, "Oh, _____ , I'm just trying to have fun with you." But I DO STOP. I don't WANT HIM TO make my having fun with him part of his delusions. Sometimes, we go on until next time and, sometimes, he fishes me back to "play" some more. This fishing back is interesting to me because in spite of his accusation, there is a part of him that does want it. The need or desire to laugh must overpower the delusional thoughts in that moment, or he would not "fish" me back to playing with him. I know the last thing you FEEL is FUNNY when you are in the moment with your DDJ, but if you can overcome how you FEEL and just do it anyway, you will be amazed that even if HE DOESN'T LAUGH ALONG, YOU sure got to (and, boy, did YOU NEED IT)! Get it??? HAHAHA!

Please add to this thread ANY THING you find that has helped you with your DDJ.

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

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by Breaking Point » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:30 am

Hi Bri....It's so good to see you back writing and sharing your experience, strength and hope! You haven't mentioned anything about the wedding...hope all went well! Getting back to what has helped with our DDJ's...I have mentioned this in a few other posts...if you have the opportunity to catch them in a lucid or normal state, introducing them to this forum, specifically certain threads that really ring an emotional bell, (which is pretty much all of them for me )really seemed to work for mine as far as giving him a little insight. Now I seem to recall you saying that it probably wouldn't be possible for you, Bri, because your guy wouldn't appreciate it, (stubborn mule that he is) but it may be beneficial to some others if they're lucky enough to persuade their partner to take a look!

I don't know if you were able to catch my latest thread about the strange sexual stimulation from my DDJ when he is having an episode, Bri, but I would love to hear what you think! Hang in there, darling...you are amazing! The thread is called I'm still hanging in...

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by Bri » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:51 am

Just wondered if anyone has had any further experiences that helped keep the DD's episodes from flaring up?

 

     ---------------

 

3. Jealousy OR Betrayal-Phobia?

by Bri » Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:49 am

This will not help DDJ in any meaningful way, but I wanted to comment on one of the quirks.

This illness has been labeled "jealousy" for many good reasons. However, I'm not sure that's what it REALLY is. Not the understanding of jealousy that we all grew up with anyway. I propose Betrayal-Phobia or something similar as a more appropriate term. It's hard to explain, but I'm going to try. I will start with a conversation I had with my DDJ.

(1) I always tried to avoid words like "insecure" or "jealous" when talking with my DDJ. We are both very big on respect, and he is very respectul to me when he is clear minded. This is only absent when he's (what I call) "phasing". I always tried to discuss with him the actual event or problem and stayed away from generalizing the whole thing by saying things like, "Why are you so jealous?" or "Get over it." Anyway, one day, it slipped. I said, "You have no reason to be jealous." He looked at me with honest bewilderment and said, "Jealous? I've never been jealous in my life!" Let me say my DDJ is very confident in himself. He does not have low-self esteem, thus a need to be defensive. He was seriously stating this. He then calmly added, "I've never been afraid of ANY man taking my woman away." Sitting there in that moment, I believed him. I couldn't reconcile that statement with his behavior, yet I knew what he said was true (to him). I spent weeks analyzing this puzzle. I went back over all the things he ever said to me. An odd picture began to form.

(2) Coming up in life, my experiences with "jealousy" were all wrapped up in low self-esteem and had a distinct pattern.

Boy #1 meets Girl
Girl talks to another Boy (Boy #2)
Boy #1 feels HURT with the Girl and ANGER toward Boy #2
Boy #1 wants to beat up Boy #2 and whisk the Girl far, far away

When my DDJ and I first started having problems, it ACTED like "jealousy", yet there was something ODD about it. I think because it didn't fit the pattern, though I didn't see it at the time. I only SENSED something was off. I remember fighting with him on the phone once when he had left saying, "I don't get it! You're convinced there's men in the windows that I'm hooking up with and your answer is to LEAVE ME? All the men I KNOW would go outside and kick some a** if they thought that! They don't RUN OFF! EXPLAIN this to me!" Of course, he could not. Another oddity I noticed was that he was always angry with ME, NOT THE MEN OUTSIDE (or men anywhere that he accused me of being with)! Oh, he threw out some obscenities about these alleged men from time to time, but the REAL anger was directed toward me.

So, here we have all these oddities that just don't fit the jealousy "pattern". Oddity #1, my DDJ does not have low self-esteem, which is often the underlying flaw with jealousy. Oddity #2, my DDJ does not feel hurt with the girl and anger toward the boy, but the exact opposite. And, Oddity #3, my DDJ does not want to beat up Boy #2 OR whisk the Girl away. SOMETHING IS OFF!

(3) One day, I was in mid-sentence when it hit me. He was right, this was NOT ABOUT JEALOUSY. Not in the sense we all grew up with. THIS WAS ABOUT BETRAYAL and HUMILIATION. THE FEAR OF IT. As he stated, he was NEVER worried that ANOTHER MAN could or would "take" his woman. If the woman had a choice, he's confident she would choose him, but she's so oversexed, she can't help herself but to allow all these men to screw her. As a matter of fact, those OTHER MEN are to be pittied somewhat because, after all, they're being suckered by this woman too. And, because I'm WORSE than a whore because I mostly sleep with these men for FREE (this was said in a fight once), THEY can't REALLY be blamed can they? I mean, if some chick is giving it away! AND taking it one step further, he REALLY isn't worried about the Other Men getting OR keeping me, because, really, who wants to commit to a whore? Another incident was when I said, "If I have all these other men on the side, why would I keep letting you come back to fight every day? Wouldn't I just say 'Wow, this is too much and I could be out having fun, so you need to hit the road?'" He says, "No, because SOME women GET OFF on playing games. Pitting men against each other." Again, the theme of "other men" being the poor bastard and you (the woman) are evil incarnate. See...there is no Boy #1 wanting to beat up Boy#2 (because my DDJ IDENTIFIES with this poor bastard). There is no whisking the girl away because it is SHE that is disgusting and needs to be gotten rid of. To sum up, this isn't about jealousy of OTHER MEN. This is about the fear of finding out that I (the girl he loves) is flawed, that I will betray him, that everyone will know but him, and he will be humiliated. Betrayal-Phobia!

Does this make sense?

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by Chucky » Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:25 am

Hi,

It makes some sense to me, but the picture I'm getting is that this guy either has a low opinion of women for some reason, or else he just doesn't understand women at all (or both). I mean, if he thinks that every woman is 'sexed-up', then he has a low opinion of them, and also doesn't understand them. It certainly doesn't sound too much like jealousy, to be honest.

Whatever the case, this type of man will only 'recover' (or 'change') when he is in danger of losing the person he loves. Like, if you threatened to leave him for good, I'm sure that would make him think about the way he is acting, and how destructive it is for the relationship.

Kevin

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by Bri » Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:40 am

Thanks Kevin for even attempting to respond to this weird post. Well, women are fine, unless he's in a relationship with them and he's having his delusions. Then he thinks I'm out to get him. But you are so right about what's important to him will determine whether he gets help or not. I think he knows something is wrong with him, but he doesn't want to go to a doctor because he's afraid the doctor WILL tell him there's something wrong. My DDJ would rather have cancer with only 6 months to live than to be told he has a mental condition. And, sadly, I guess I'm not important enough because he is gone again and I don't think he's coming back this time. Just trying to get through this.

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by Chucky » Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:48 pm

Bri wrote: My DDJ would rather have cancer with only 6 months to live than to be told he has a mental condition. And, sadly, I guess I'm not important enough because he is gone again and I don't think he's coming back this time. Just trying to get through this.


Unfortunately, this type of outlook on health is common across all males: They would rather just live with a problem (even if it kills them) than go to see a doctor. I was like this, but my mother is very pushy and has introduced me to the world of doctors and both physical and mental health. Anyway, when you say that he's gona 'again', are you referring to a very recent happening? Did you and he have another fight?

All you can do is just leave him to his own devices. I'm sure that you have expended enough time/energy for him, but now you should be considering what is best for you. If he wants to go and wreck his own life, there's not much you can do about it because he simply won't listen.

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by Bri » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:47 pm

No. He won't listen. Very stubborn. I keep trying to picture what moving on looks like, I keep reaching for it. My other thread, "I Got DDJ Babe," tells a little about our cycle of him coming and going. I guess I've always feared that one day he would go and not come back. I just wasn't ready for that fear to come true yet. Thanks for your support. It helps.

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by Chucky » Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:06 am

Hi Bri,

I have briefly read that other thread but it appears that you are in good hands there, receiving advice from people in similar situations. As such, I will refrain from replying there. I guess that the ultimate message I want to get across to you is that you don't have to put up with his behaviour and that you should give him some sort of ultimatum whereby either he gets help for his problems or else you just leave. Basically, you have to make him see that he can't keep doing this and expect you to accept him back into your life each time.

Kevin

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by Bri » Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:13 am

Kevin:

Well, he's got me there too, because every time he's tried to leave, I've coaxed him to stay, and every time he's actually left, I've encouraged him to come home. I don't have the leverage of "You better get help or get out," because he IS getting out. There's times he's left cuz he was SURE I was guilty of something or other...and...there's times he's left because he thought he was doing me a favor. As in him saying, "No one deserves this and I can't stop, so I have to leave." What's frustrating is that when he's phasing, he absolutely thinks I'm guilty. There's no winning there. But when he has clarity, he knows he's wrong, thus the apologies. My question? IF HE HAS MOMENTS OF CLARITY, and knows something is wrong, why can't he JUST GO TO THE DR instead of losing someone he loves??

I know...I know...he doesn't want to hear it.

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by Chucky » Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:17 pm

Yeh, he can't go to the doctor because he has a male brain (and they don't like going to doctors... ...)! How receptive is he during his 'clarity' moments? I mean, how well does he listen to what you have to say? One thing that you could try is to give him a sheet of paper with a list of symptoms of Delusional Disorder on it when he is next in a 'clarity' moment. On the sheet, just have the symptoms and don't give any mention - direct or indirect - to mental health or Delusional Disorder. You see, if he identifies with the symptoms, he may be curious enough as to find out what they represent, and then he will learn about Delusional Disorder.

It's worth a try... ...I guess.

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by Bri » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:57 am

When he has clarity, he listens pretty well, UNLESS I start talking about something being wrong with him. I have thought about putting information in front of him, but since I'm the alleged enemy, I thought it better if it came from someone else. This is where his sister is supposed to come in. She says she's going to do it at some point. Interesting note....my man's father had this same condition. His mom went through hell with the dad. She divorced him many years ago when their kids were middle age. He is now dead. When my man leaves and goes to the woods, his mom's is where he sleeps at night (if he comes in). They are there alone for hours. I can't understand WHY she cannot have a talk with him, considering her ex-husband, my man's father, had this same illness. Unfortunately, she does not want to get into his "business" as she calls it. But she doesn't have to get into his "business" to simply tell him about his father! I think she's afraid to bring it up with him. I just don't know what to do.

Last edited by Bri on Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by Chucky » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:06 pm

Bri,

I imagine that his mother (and, perhaps, sister) aren't taking heed with his problems because they aren't the ones being overly affected by him. In fact, when he visits them, he probably acts like an angel to them and comes across as the victim. So, his mother would naturally them see his problems in a different light as to how you see them. That's what I think anyway.

I'd talk to the sister again and make sure she realises how serious the issue is. Are you normally on good speaking terms with her?

Kevin

 

            --------------------------------------------

 

4. Just Tears....

by Bri » Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:50 am

ADDING A NOTE HERE: My story starts in "I Got DDJ (You) Babe". I didn't realize I had begun in one place and moved to another.

Okay, my worst fear has come true. Every time my guy leaves, I wait, and he comes back. I am always afraid he will finally not come back. He is not a cheater, so I don't have to worry about that, and as long as he's in the woods (where he goes when he leaves), we still always have hope. However, I knew that if he ever hooked up with someone else, then he was done with me for good. In other words, he would never feel right asking someone else out unless he felt that we were over. Anyway, 2 hours ago, I found out he gave a woman his phone number. He has never done this before. And I am crushed because I know what this means. Yes, I was holding out hope that he would one more time find it in himself to come home. It's especially painful because last year on New Years, we were at a party having the time of our lives. What makes me the maddest is that the reason he left was he was convinced that I was on a DVD (of his show!) flirting and talking to some guy. I was there, but I NEVER talked to any guy. He showed his sister the DVD and she told him flat out that there was nobody where he was pointing to. Only shadows. The reason he left isn't EVEN TRUE. I'm so upset right now, I'm sure I'm babbling. Ah, but you all know how this works. I tell you nothing new.

Last edited by Bri on Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by Bri » Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:18 pm

Thanks for asking!! I am devastated. Through all this crap, it has been hard. Really hard. The terrible accusations, the fights, him leaving, living without him while he's gone. What kept me going was he was always able to say sorry, that he loved me, and he always came back home eventually. That's what made the days bearable when he was gone. This time that he's left, I haven't heart a word from him. This is not like him. I've been very worried. But since he's up in the woods hunting, I've let it go. Finding out last night that he gave his number to a woman is heartbreaking. Not just because it always hurts when our man gives another woman attention, but because of what it means. He would not have done it unless he was done. He is done coming home to me. So, now it's like I have to go through a whole other process of letting go. I was soooo sure he would come home like always and now I know he's not. It takes my breath away. I love him so much and we've been through so much. How do you just let go of someone you love, yet I know that's all I got now. I have cried all night over this.

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by jasmin » Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:11 pm

Wait until you can talk to him again, and then see what you have to do. If you won't be together any more, you'll get through that just like you've gotten through the other stuff. It will get easier after a while. Maybe it'd be better this way, since this relationship is causing you a lot of pain.

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by Bri » Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:35 pm

Posting again cuz I'm having a moment here. I can't decide if I should tell him I know about this, and now that I know where I stand with him, I'm can no longer stand by him, OR...just leave it alone and fade away. I want to confront him, yet I say to myself, if it's over...then it's over. Why put yourself through one more emotionally painful event with him. Talking would give him the opportunity to say more hurtful things, adding pain onto pain. I probably should just leave it alone. Gee, why do I feel like I'M THE ONE with mental problems?? I'm overwhelmed, shocked, hurt, angry, sad, frustrated, depressed, anxious, have insomnia, and have lost a good 25 lbs this past year. Crap, this is hard.

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by jasmin » Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:47 am

Maybe just a few words from him telling you it's over would be helpful if you weren't sure, but if you're sure, do what feels comfortable to you. Everything that you've been through has made you feel like you have mental problems, but you can get better. You will start a new life.

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by Bri » Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:52 pm

I've been thinking about what you said. About asking him. I don't think he'll talk to me, as he did not respond to my email on Christmas, or answer his phone the one time I tried to call. It appears I have no choice except to "get over it." As I typed this, I decided to try one more time. He did not answer. So there it is. Thanks for posting...it is reallly lonely right now.

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by jasmin » Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:58 pm

Hi, Bri! You are not alone. You did your best and you have to move on now. I think you'll have a better chance to be happy this way. It's very cruel of him to ignore you like you feelings don't matter. He doesn't deserve all your concern.

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by Bri » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:44 am

You're right, so I don't know why I think I need one more thing from him for closure, but I do. I guess I need him to say "go away." I have no idea why, as I should be able to "go away" without being told. I've tried one last thing - writing him a mail. It wasn't long or dramatic. I didn't confront him about what I know. I just simply said, (1) this is hard; (2) I'm confused as to where I stand since you're not speaking to me; and (3) flat asked him "Do you want me to go away?" I don't see how much simpler that can be??? I guess if he ignores that too, I will be no better off, so I don't know what the point was. I guess when a man tells you (sick or not) that they love you and don't want to lose you, it's hard to believe he's done only 4 weeks later. How do you stop loving someone in 4 weeks?

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by jasmin » Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:07 pm

This might have to do with his illness and we can't really understand it. If he doesn't reply, you'll know, I guess. It's normal to need him to tell you it's over for closure. Could you go look for him? It's ok if you don't want to or don't feel like you could do it.

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by Bri » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:41 pm

Well, when he leaves, he goes to an isolated little town about 2 hours away. I could drive there, but I guess I don't want to intrude without his permission. I was hoping we would speak before Christmas and he might let me come up for a day or two, but it never happened. I've decided not to do much more. I've left him some emails, and a couple of phone messages. I guess he'll get back to me or he won't. I guess I expected him to stay single for awhile, to clear his head, etc. I never dreamed in a million years he would give out his phone number. Not like this, not this soon. I'm devastated.

Last edited by Bri on Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by jasmin » Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:14 am

This isn't your fault. He's being cruel and he shouldn't be treating you like this. Try to forget him as best you can. I hope he'll decide to be a decent human being and answer you to tell you where you stand.

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by Bri » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:39 pm

I am so stuck on what to do.

First, after he gave out his phone number (on email), the girl has not logged in to receive it, nor has he logged back in to see if she replied. What's REALLY weird is his phone has been off all of December. When I saw he left his number, I assumed he was turning it back on. I found out he is not, so he will not have the phone for January. Why do you give your number out when you know you're not going to be available? Maybe he hoped she'd call and he would then have a record of her number? Point is...she hasn't called him. They have not talked. YET.....

Second, he is still up in the country. I know he's depressed, etc., but I can't decide if he's up there thinking "us" over, as in he misses me? Or is he up there SURE WE ARE DONE and is getting over me? He still has not talked to me by mail or phone, which is unusual for this length of time.

Third, I still feel like I need closure. Someone suggested I GO UP THERE and face him. I thinks sometimes yes, then I think no. If I believe he loves me still, will receive me, and it will be okay, I would do it. If he does not love me now, absolutely DOES NOT want to see me, and he will have a fit about it, then I do not want to force him.

Fourth (and my dilemma), I want to have a final talk with him face to face for closure. BUT I WANT it to be without ANY OTHER influence (such as the woman he gave his number to). My biggest fear is they will start talking before he and I have our talk. If he has something else to cling to, he may be harder on me, or avoid dealing with me because he has someone else. I don't want to push him, but I only have a limited window of opportunity to settle this between us without outside interference. Do I GO UP THERE and risk him being mad? Or do I leave it alone and wait until he WANTS to talk to me?

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by qwerty » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:35 pm

stop torturing yourself. If you want to talk to him, go talk to him.

Remember, you are not dealing with a rational person. He's ill. His brain is not working correctly. You're wasting your own time trying to anticipate how he will react. I believe the phrase that's most commonly used on this forum is "walking on eggshells". If you want closure, go get it. He's not going to get better without treatment & I think it's highly unlikely he will reach that conclusion on his own. (I assume he doesn't even think he has any health issue in the first place, so why would he.) Go have your say & then leave. You cannot debate a person w/ DD. Maybe your ultimatum & the pleas from his sister will nudge him to see a doctor.

good luck.

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by Bri » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:55 pm

Qwerty:

I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but I read your post and it was like a slap in the face (in a GOOD way)! As much as I "get" intellectually he is not well, my emotions don't always remember that. Yes, I walk on "eggshells," as he is so unpredictable in every way. All my experiences in past relationships have NO bearing on this one. What I think he'll do, he doesn't. What I don't think he'll do, he does. What he does ONE time may not be what he does the SECOND time. It makes it all very hard in trying to figure out what I'M supposed to do at any given time. I finally figured out with this disorder that there is NO RIGHT WAY or RIGHT ANSWER...EVER. You're lucky if you find a neutral one. I've pretty much accepted that. However, the one thing I've never wanted to do is THE WRONG THING and that is NO easy thing to figure.

When I read your post, I had been working on a letter to him. I thought even if I write a GREAT letter, a PERFECT letter, there's no guarantee he will respond, which will leave me right back where I started. No closure. I hesitated to go to him because he is 2 hours away. What if he throws me out after I get there? But you are right. I am not dealing with a rational person AND if I want closure, I better "GO GET IT" cuz let's face it, he is in no hurry to talk with me or figure anything out. So....I closed my letter, packed my crap, got in my car and drove the stinkin' 2 hours. I was scared to death.

When I got there, he looked at me like I was crazy, and asked what I was doing, at which I replied, "Well, I couldn't just leave it the way it was left" (we had parted on an ugly note). I also said, "EVEN if we ARE over, I didn't want our last words to be bad." He looked at me funny, then immediately went into his rant about how he KNEW what was going on, etc. When he was done, I put my hand softly to his face and said, "All I can tell you is it's not true, I love you, you are my world, and I wouldn't chase you to Tim-Buc-Two if I didn't!" He ranted some more and when he was done, I said, "THIS IS NOT FAIR! YOU KNOW you have a problem and I want to know when YOU are going to take responsibility for it?" He said, "I did. I left!" And I said, "No, no, no. I don't mean THAT kind. I mean why can you not contemplate even the IDEA that MAYBE some of this is YOU? I don't believe I'm the first you've had these problems with and BELIEVE ME, IF YOU HOOK UP WITH SOMEONE ELSE, IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN!" He spouted that NO ONE was going to make him think he was delusional (which I found interesting he used that word because I HAVE NOT USED THAT WORD WITH HIM). I said, "You have a chemical imbalance. It can be treated with medicine. LOTS of people have this." He says, "I'm NOT going to a doctor." So....there it was. He is NOT going. I knew he would say this, but one can always HOPE. I finally just said, "Well, I only want you to think about ONE thing. And that is the FACT that I HAVE SEEN THE UGLY and I have stood by you no matter what. I don't THINK ANYONE ELSE IS GOING TO DO THAT FOR YOU. And...if you think they will...you are KIDDING yourself. If you can't figure out by that ALONE that I love you, then nothing will convince you." He didn't say much after that. He calmed down, changed the subject, and I stayed up there for 4 days. I just got home.

I know you're thinking that I'm thinking things are all better now because he's not quit on me (yet), but I tell you.....all the way home I cried and cried at the unfairness of it all. That we want to be together and what is breaking us apart is his belief I'm doing things I have NEVER done. I lose him a little more each time and I know I will soon lose him for good. This is merely a lull. It breaks my heart. He says he'll be home in a few days, and maybe he will, but I know that after a few weeks, it will all start up again. I cannot fight an unseen enemy. I can only stand there helplessly, while he flips out. He will leave me again and I will be right back where I started. At some point, he will believe there is SO MUCH against me that he will never want to come back. He will move on.

I ask myself, "Did I get closure? Really?" The answer sadly is....no (not this time anyway). I probably never will UNTIL I LET HIM GO. I don't know if I can. I know if he hooks up with someone else, I would let go, but GEEZZZZZZ, why do I have to wait for something THAT painful to get it through my thick head? I keep thinking LET GO NOW WHILE YOU ARE STILL HALFWAY SANE!

Anyway, you're advice was good. I was going crazy with the NOT KNOWING. Now I know SOMETHING. I would still be sitting here losing my mind if I hadn't just gone up there. It was the right thing to do even if closure remains elusive.

Bri

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by jasmin » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:49 pm

(((((((((((I'm glad qwerty's post helped you decide to go talk to him and that you're feeling a bit better. Maybe you don't want to let him go because you feel like he's helpless and you need to take care of him. It's his decision to not see a doctor. Maybe you and his family can try to convince him again when he'll come back.

 

by qwerty » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:58 pm

Hello Bri,

I didn't mean for my post to be a slap. Just trying to remind you that the issue is his, not yours, so don't drive yourself to distraction.

I'm glad you were able to talk to him. Hopefully you can work things out in your own mind.

It's easy to write advice, but, sadly, it seems to me that the only way we really move on/deal with DD is that we become numb to it eventually and the emotional connection is weakened. Then the actions of our loved ones don't seem to matter as much one way or the other, since they have already "gone".

good luck to you.

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by Bri

This is what I'm afraid of. That over time we become desensitized and give up on them. Or...the DDJ gives in to the delusions once and for all and gives up on us. Either way, it's a loss.

Every since I saw him last weekend, I've gone back and forth between: I'm so happy he's still in this, he will be coming back this Friday, we can try again, and maybe I'll get through to him about the doctor this time. Then I end up saying: All this effort to "hold on" should be put toward "letting go." Accepting the inevitable. Even if he comes back, he will cycle again. He will get angry and leave, and he'll have one more thing to stack against me. One of these times, he FLAT AIN'T COMING BACK. I don't want to be still in it, holding on, hoping, when that happens. I should be using this time to DISCONNECT....so I'm not so hurt.

Furthermore, I don't really know when he comes back in town tomorrow that he's even planning on seeing me. Maybe he won't bother. He acted okay when I was up there, but I haven't (again) heard from him all week since then. Makes me wonder if he'll even try. But I can't keep chasing him down. I'm to the point now that if he makes no effort.....I guess I'm giving up. At least as far as chasing him down. If he comes to me? I don't know...I guess it depends on how long of time has gone by.

I guess I don't have to tell you I won't be getting any sleep tonight, as I'll be worrying about tomorrow. All that is just to say: if I don't come back to the board for a bit, he's here. If I'm back....he didn't come home.

Thanks for your input. It really helps to come here.

Bri

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by jasmin » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:30 pm

Hi, Bri! How are you doing? I hope he'll decide to get help at some point.

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by Bri » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:45 pm

Thanks Jasmin for asking. I'm trying to get through this day by day.

I spoke to him yesterday. He's coming back to town today (Sat), but he's going to the guy's house that has work for him. He's going to stay with him for a few days. I asked him if, after that, he would he come to my house and look at my dryer (it's not heating) and he said "yes". So......I know he's coming back here at least for that. I want him to stay, but I know what will happen, so it kind of takes the bling out of it. Of course, I've said many times, there is NO REASON AT ALL TO HANG ON unless the GOAL is having the doctor conversation again. Otherwise, we're just biding time and kidding ourselves that things will change. I know as soon as I start talking about it, he will get mad and leave. BUT...isn't he going to leave anyway when he has his next delusion?

I've also said many times if the doctor and a pill is all it takes to save his life and his relationship, WHY WHY WHY won't he just do it? Why is it THAT big of deal? I realized yesterday when I envisioned him taking a pill (haha) that the VERY ACT of taking the pill would BE AN ADMISSION he is sick. He would be admitting he had a mental illness and that he's been wrong about stuff (past and present). This is TOO MUCH for him to handle. He would rather be told he has cancer than to admit to a mental illness.

Everyone has been SO SUPPORTIVE here. I'm so glad I found you guys! It REALLY DOES HELP to know you're not completely alone.

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by jasmin » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:19 pm

Bri, have you talked to a doctor who specializes in this stuff about him? Sorry if you mentioned it before. Maybe you could ask your boyfriend why he's afraid of having a mental illness.

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by Bri » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:52 am

Well, he came back to town last Friday and went to the guy's house who had work, spent one night, then showed up unannounced at his sisters, where I just happened to be going to take food for dinner. She tells him I'm coming and he doesn't say anthing. We thought he might get upset if he knew she and I had been talking or hanging out. We ate, he stayed, I stayed. The next day, he was supposed to go back to the job, but he ended up not going, so I spent Sunday with him too. Since his sister and her family were around, it was much like when I went to see him in the country (where his mom and a family friend were also staying). There was not much privacy to have any meaningful conversation. He never mentioned if he was coming home and I never asked. I figure I should just enjoy the moment. I watched his sister's kids for her Wed night and he called me there to check on me. It was nice considering he has not physically picked up a phone and dialed me since Dec 2. He is staying at the job house until the project is finished. So....AS USUAL, I'm just waiting to see if he decides to come home or not? Unless he comes here on his own and WANTS to be here, I don't feel like I can shove the doctor conversation on him. I guess we'll see.....

This is kind of corny, but I wrote a poem last summer during one of the times he was gone. It so explains how I feel.

Meaningless Infinity...
09-08

My heart...once full of dreams
is filled with a cold silence
of where you used to be
All that's left
are the echos of your voice
and faded laughter
...A haunting I welcome

My mind...counting the hours
waits for a glimpse of your ghost
to comfort my sorrow
~The clock ticks
meaningless infinity
and I'm reminded
...I am lost without you

My fear...so relentless
is that you will disappear
all together from me
~And I won't
be able to bring you back
out of the "dark" place
...Where I do not exist

My hope...a whisper now
calls quietly to your soul
reaching you in the night
~You awake
and remember the soft way
my hand touched your face
...LET MY LIGHT LEAD YOU HOME

Bri

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by jasmin » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:36 pm

That's a beautiful poem, Bri! It's very touching and sincere. Hopefully he will come back to you and decide to stay so that you and his family can get him to go to a doctor.

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by Bri » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:10 pm

It's days like today I feel like giving up! I talked to his sister today and she said he came over last night, spent the night, and was going to be there today (Sat) and probably tomorrow. I was SO sure after talking to him Wed that he was going to call me when he got back to his sisters. I didn't expect him to come home, but we seem to do pretty well on neutral ground, so I thought he'd want to see me when he could. She said he just sat on the couch all night and didn't say a word. When she asked him if he'd talked to me, he said, "No. And who knows what she does." That sounds soooo like "I don't care." If he doesn't want to make even the slightest effort, what the hell am I doing trying to so hard???? I've been thinking all this time that since he'll still talk to me and see me, that somehow that all means he's still in this with me. Now I'm just thinking I'm stupid. It just hit me that he doesn't tell me to shove off or throw me out because he actually does love me (and he can't quite bring himself to do it)...HOWEVER...he IS DONE. He's just waiting for me to catch up. His sister said she thinks I should call there tonight while he's there. She's thinking he might see me and she knows I want to see him...but...I'm sitting here trying to make a decision. As much as I'd like to do anything that would give me a chance to spend some time with him, I also feel like I'm chasing him down for something he doesn't want to give. If he didn't call last night and he doesn't call me tonight on his own, aren't I just being retarded??? I need to start letting go and that would start with stopping reaching out to him.

God I hate this whole ugly rotten cruel freakin' illness!

Bri

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by jasmin » Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:22 pm

Bri, why don't you try to have some fun and not think of this whole mess, even if it's just for a little while. He is being a bit cruel by not talking to you and not telling you if he still wants the relationship. Take some time for yourself and maybe you'll be able to think more clearly then.

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by faithful » Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:16 am

Hey Bri, stop beating yourself up. Check out the stages of grieving. I've likened DD to widowhood, really, you've lost the person you loved. He did not lie to you or cheat on you or betray you, or maybe he did, but it is because he became someone else. You are bargaining now, "if only I, if only he...." and next, eventually, will come acceptance. Either you can accept that you must leave and begin a new life, or accept that what you are living now is your new normal. Only you can figure that one out. If my husband had any recognition of reality, had treated me with anything other than contempt, I may have been able to stay with him, to honor my vow. But he could not, and I could not, and I do not regret my decision to leave. In fact, everything I have seen of my ex husband's life since has reinforced that I made the right decision. But that is my life. None of us knows the future. Just be assured, that life offers challenges to us all, and we endure, but ultimately we chose our futures.

faithful

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by Tara » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:12 am

faithful,

how are things going for you and your family? Couple of days ago I had to compose an e-mail to my mother in law explaining why my husband refuses to talk to them or write to them and I thought of you

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by faithful » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:20 pm

Thanks for asking, Tara. Must have been a hard letter to compose. I'm ok. My ex is pretty much just a memory now, although he still intrudes into my dreams occasionally. This week in fact I had a vivid dream that he called me & told me he now thinks he may be delusional, because when he told his new girlfriend his proof of my infidelity, she laughed at him and did not believe him. So I guess my unconscious still has periods of magical thinking - not that we'd ever be back together, but that someday he might get some insight. But I am very aware that it was just a dream.

My son is still consumed with anger and paranoia and blames me and his siblings and his ex-wife for his lack of custody of his son. That he refuses to see his son at all if he doesn't have custody (he does have visitation rights, but has not shown up for months) seems a perfectly reasonable action to him. He's basically holding himself hostage - we can't see him unless we fall all over ourselves apologizing to him for his horrible life and how badly we've treated him - essentially accept that his feelings of persecution are based on facts and that we are the persecutors. He sent me a note that he wanted me to read to his son (7 years old) that essentially said it was the boy's mother's fault that he was not visiting anymore, and, that he wanted the boy to keep the note a secret from his mom. I refused to read him that, refused to tell a child to keep a secret from his mother and that his mother is the reason his father doesn't visit, and of course I am now demonized for that. I waiver between trying to reach out to my son (email is the only way I have to contact him), and just letting him go, which of course would be his proof that I never cared to begin with. It is so reminiscent of how my husband treated me - unending emotional and verbal abuse - and when I finally say enough and leave, he proudly says, "See, she never loved me anyway, or she wouldn't have left!" I finally did get to the point with my husband that I truly did not care what he thought of me. I don't know if I can get to that point with my son though. I thank God for my grandson though, he is the light of my life. At least my son gave me that.

And, still dealing with my dad, who has been in Hospice for 8 months now. Guess he is going for a record (I've been told the average Hospice stay is 29 days). I visit, he is awake some times, others not. I did watch some of the Obama inauguration with him, which was a delight, he is a big Obama fan, seems what he has been most aware of this last year has been the election. He was very active in Democratic politics 1930s - 1990s, and that interest seems to be staying with him to the end. Glad he got to see the Democrats back in office.
All for now, best wishes to everyone.

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by Bri » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:16 pm

I haven't wanted to post until I had something new to say. This whole illness is so very tiring, but it helps to have this board to cry to!

My DDJ finally came back from his "vacation." He would not come to my house, so he stayed at his sisters. He wanted to see me, so I went there (on a Sun) and wound up with a flat tire, so I had to take his truck to work the next day (Mon), which put me back to him that night. The next day, the tire was flat again, so we did a repeat (Tues). Wednesday was my last day to work before starting a 10 day vacation. I wasn't sure if he wanted to spend it with me or not, but he asked me to come back, so I did. I spent Wed through the weekend, then all the next week there. I will spare you the details of what's its like to sleep on a couch for 13 days in the middle of another entire family trying to live their lives around you. However, I will say that since he trusts his sister and feels safe at her house, we had very few problems. It was almost nice. We had one hitch in the middle of the week when he saw a guy walking a dog. He started in about the guy was probably from my neighborhood (the one talking in our windows). Then he went into a speech about how he WOULD NEVER come back to my house again. I said fine! Cuz as much as I would like him to come home, I KNOW my house affects him. I don't want him to start getting sick again, so I would rather see him on his own turf if it helps us. However....on the Friday before my vacation ended, he was so sick of being at his sister, he said to me he wanted to go to my house. I WAS LIKE GULP!!!

We spent Friday night there all right, but on Saturday he started watching the windows again and insisting there were men outside wanting to get with me. By Sunday, he was accusing me of being in on it. I knew when he realized I would have to return to work and be out of his sight that it would trigger this whole thing again. Mon and Tues were much the same. I would wake up and he would be standing in the dark at the windows or pacing the house. I got very little sleep. He barks in the mornings that I'm going to meet men instead of going to work and bashes me when I get home that I've been with men all day.

On Wednesday, I got home and it was much the same only he made a comment "...even if I do have some kind of chemical imbalance, I'm NOT WRONG about this man at your window!" Since HE brought the words up "chemical imbalance" himself, I just decided to go all out and bring up what I've learned about this illness without seeming like I'm dying to. I said, "I know you don't want to hear this, but I wish you would let me share with you what I know about this condition. It's called Othello's Syndrome and it affect your love relationship." At first he said no, and I said fine. I went back to doing what I was doing like it didn't matter. Then he started asking me questions. To make a long story short, he finally allowed me to TELL HIM WHAT THIS DISORDER was, how it works, how its exclusive to his partner, and that there is medication for it. I mentioned his father having it as well. He didn't rant and rave, but listened quietly...amazing really. When I was finished, he didn't say anything for quite some time, and then said "Okay, but if I find out you're lying to me IN ANY WAY to save your own skin from being found out, WE ARE DONE!" I said fine because I'M NOT LYING!

Now you would think all this would make things better. Maybe they even have in some small way. However, that night after the talk, he INSISTED the men were in the window and if they were not my lovers they must be stalkers and HE CALLED THE POLICE! I'm not kidding! He had them come check the property for these alleged men. Of course, there was nothing there and they left. Yesterday (Thur) when I got home from work, he said he had went out and talked to ALL the neighbors to make them aware of prowlers. Then, last night, around 1 am like before, he was so convinced they were in the windows, he called the police AGAIN! This time they came inside the house and asked us a bunch of questions. I think the officer was questioning my man's reasoning just by the way he was looking at him. I think he was trying to decide if my man was crazy or on drugs because of the anxious, hyped up, ranting way my man was explaining the situation that had been taking place for MONTHS around our house! He told the cop "I WANT A STOP TO THIS!" Poor cop didn't know what to think though I think he tried his best to believe him. This morning, my man insisted he take me to work himself because (a) if I'm in on it, he wants to catch us, or (b) if I'm not in on it, he doesn't want these stalkers to GET TO ME!

Oh boy....what will be next! I don't think he's ready to take meds yet, as he's barely accepting what I even told him about the disorder at this point.

Thanks for listening.....I'm so tired!

Bri

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by jasmin » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:32 pm

Hey, Bri! Sorry about the late reply. At least you got to tell him about the disorder. Do you think he'd go with you to see a doctor? Maybe you could look for one and if you catch him on a good day again, you could casually show him some info or the doctor's site or something like that. Maybe you could tell him that you've heard great things about the doctor, to make him curious.

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by Bri » Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:48 pm

Feeling discouraged this week (again). The update from my last post is fairly short though my rambling isn't (haha)...

After the cops incident, he insisted on taking me to work Friday, which he did. He was trying to "catch" the men who follow me to work everyday. The ones he's many times insisted I'm meeting instead of going to work. He lays low in the passenger seat while I'm driving and says (as I turn the corner by our house), "Now, watch, as soon as you turn this corner, that guy will fly up behind you..." I say, "Oooookay." Well, of course, NO CAR comes up behind us. By the time we get to the highway, he's sitting up in his seat. When he drops me off, he says he'll be there at 3:00 to pick me up. Of course, he shows up at 2:30 trying to "catch me." On the way home he asks me if I want to go to the country with him for the weekend. I say, sure, as long as I'm back for work by Monday. We go up, we have a nice time, he brings me back Monday...but...he says he's turning around and going back up because fishing season has started. I figure what the heck does it matter? I KNOW he can't handle my house, so why not (if it helps us)?

I talked to him once in the week, then went up and spent last weekend with him. It also went fairly well. However, this Wed when we talked on the phone, he started ranting again about how bad I am. I tell him none of it is true and I'll call him Friday and come up. He says, "Whatever! Just do what you do, Bri!" That ticked me off cuz he's back to sounding like he doesn't care...I should just do "whatever" I want cuz he doesn't care. I struggled all week with how to handle Friday. I had 3 choices, all of which I'd lose in some way.

If I call and say I'm coming, I'm just continuing to enable him. I'm saying it's okay to treat me however and I'll still be right there. If I call (out of respect) to say I'm not coming, he will say I'm staying home to see my boyfriends. If I don't call at all and just don't show up, he'll say I saw my boyfriends AND he'll punish me for not calling cuz he'll say, "Ohhh, getting froggy is she? I'll SHOW HER!" See, all three ways I lose. When I got home yesterday, I just felt crappy. I thought, he's going to be an ass no matter what and I just don't feel it today. I didn't call and I didn't go up. He never called me either. Soooo.....here we go with round 5,000 of him punishing me.

As always, one minute I think how it would be fine if we were over. I would be better off, etc. Then I get really down because I really do love this man and I know he has a mental illness. We've come so far and to give up on him really bothers me. Last night his sisters said, "I know you're going to have to give up on him at some point. I wish there was something I could do." I told her I just SO appreciate that she has been there for me, and tries as hard as I do to get through to him.

Okay, I'm done. I THANK ALL OF YOU who respond. It really does matter. I have no family really. I'm not close to either parent. My son is grown and gone. I have no siblings (except 2 half sisters 15 years younger than me), and my friends drifted away last year when all this got to be too much for them. I've got my DDJ's sister and I've got this board...that's it. Thanks for listening.....

Bri

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by wifeofDDJ » Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:32 am

Bri wrote: It really does matter. I have no family really. I'm not close to either parent. My son is grown and gone. I have no siblings (except 2 half sisters 15 years younger than me), and my friends drifted away last year when all this got to be too much for them. I've got my DDJ's sister and I've got this board...that's it. Thanks for listening.....



Bri, do you have a therapist? is there anyway you can get one, some health insurance will cover at least part of the cost? when i read what you write, I get very concerned. The only way to get past this situation is to get the perspective and support of people that are 100% behind you. Isolation plays right into the DDJ's game - you loose perspective ENTIRELY when you try to please him, and play by his rules. But I am sure you know this already.

The trick to be able to ACT on it and save yourself is to have 1) a complete break from interaction with the DDJ, and 2) support from friends and family every day.

Paradoxically, for those of us with kids still at home, i think it is easier to disconnect from the DDJ – no one wants a life full of tension and social isolation for their kids, and no one wants to give the message to kids that yes it is OK to be abused daily, and stay around for more.

Bri, there are people out there who love you, they deserve that you take better care of yourself.

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by leavingthedarkness » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:32 pm

You said it so well, WifeofDDJ. The clarity only comes when you are detached.

I have kept my interaction with my DDJ husband to a bare minimum for over a month now. In the beginning, it took all my will power to resist calling him back or to respond to his emails. There were nights I hide in a dark room in the house when he picked up/dropped off the children, so I could have a peek of him without facing him. And oh, I have driven by his place several times because I got anxious about his love life (This is the hardest but most important one for me to break, it took a lot of will power to stop.)

Every time I stop myself from contacting him, every time I successfully resist my urge to drive by his house, I get more detached and I know next time it will be easier.

Bri, when we dance the DDJ's crazy dance, we get dizzy and lost our bearings. Only by stop dancing with them, we get our head clear and then are able to find directions.

We, on the forum, are all your friends. We are here for you. Please email or write to me whenever you need (or want) to. I am very worry about you.

leavingthedarkness

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by Bri » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:23 am

wifeofDDJ and leavingthedarkness:

You both are right. I know this. Last week I was walking through a store with my DDJ's sister. After rambling a bit, I stopped and said, "Yeah, but the real problem is I feel like because I've been in this so long, I've lost my perspective. I don't trust my own judgment anymore." She looked at me and I said, "Yeah, YOU need to give me some!" HAHAHA! Of course, she said some helpful things, but then I said, "Well, HE may be the one with mental illness, but I'M THE ONE who needs a doctor!" Then we just laughed again.

I guess one thing different for me than many people here is that most people's DDJ stay (and drive them crazy). My DDJ is gone far more than he is home. I guess whenever I get a chance to spend time with him, I take it, because I know it won't last before he's gone again for god knows how long..... I'm not "stuck" with him in any way. The time I see him has been voluntary on my part. On the other hand, when I have spent time with him, I come away wondering what good have I done?

Anyhoo....I was good this weekend! I didn't call and I didn't go! That's a start.....

Bri

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by Bri » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:35 pm

Okay, it's been almost 2 weeks. I haven't called or gone up there. I've done really well staying busy this week until last night. I got home late and when I sat down on the bed, I just bawled my eyes out. Yes, I miss him and all, but it was more like grieving over loss than over missing him. I feel like I must be starting to accept that it's a loss (if not now at some later point). One main reason I stayed in this, no matter what, was for the sole purpose of telling him (cuz no one had) he had a medical problem and being able to explain it. I was determined to stay until he AT LEAST had that much. So he could no longer scratch his head and wonder why his life was falling apart. I accomplished that mission 3 weeks ago. He didn't want to take the next step (doctor), so that left us in limbo (again). Since then, I've had a real hard time finding a reason to hold on anymore. THAT was my reason and it's done. It would be different if he was open to the next step, but he's not. So......what do I do now? That is the question. I don't plan to call tomorrow or go up. It will be hard, but I'm really trying..... He has GOT to come to a place where he takes responsibility for this and I told him that the day we had our talk! Something's got to give...

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by chloe09 » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:25 am

My heart...once full of dreams
is filled with a cold silence

of where you used to be
All that's left
are the echos of your voice
and faded laughter
...A haunting I welcome

My mind...counting the hours
waits for a glimpse of your ghost
to comfort my sorrow
~The clock ticks
meaningless infinity
and I'm reminded
...I am lost without you

My fear...so relentless
is that you will disappear
all together from me
~And I won't
be able to bring you back
out of the "dark" place
...Where I do not exist

My hope...a whisper now
calls quietly to your soul
reaching you in the night
~You awake
and remember the soft way
my hand touched your face
...LET MY LIGHT LEAD YOU HOME



Oh Bri, it's as if you're reading my mind and living my life (((hugs)))

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by Bri » Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:07 am

Having a bad night here. We had a switch with the time and for a person who already has insomnia, this kind of thing can be very troubling. To get up an hour earlier, I need to go to bed an hour earlier, but I already can't go to sleep on the time I'm on (let alone an hour earlier). It's so ridiculous.

Lying there all night, I kept thinking about this whole mess. All the things done and said. I kept asking WHAT is the real hurt or anger for you in this?? Was it when he did this...or that? Said this or that? I kept removing each incident from the least important down to the MOST important. When I got down to the small pile of really BAD things between us, I had an image. I have to laugh (yet it's not funny). I saw myself kicking these big chunks of hurt away from the pile, and you know what was left?? This small little pebble. I picked it up and (you won't believe it) it was LONELINESS! HAHA! Yes! It was tiny ole loneliness. I thought, THIS is the thing that's been grinding my bones?? This little ole thing?? I realized the most destructive thing he has done to us is left me alone too long, too many times. I am angry with him for denying me his companionship, leaving me to drag through life by myself. It seems I can live with anything when it comes to him, but I can't live without him. The wall I'm building isn't coming from his illness, his bashing, his anger, his accusations, even his leaving! It's coming from resentment of his being gone TOO LONG. He used to leave for 5, 8, or 10 days. Anymore, it's 30 plus days. I feel abandoned.

I told my girlfriend once, if I could give a meaningful message to the MEN of the world about WOMEN, it would be this:

Leaving a woman alone too long can be dangerous. Not so much because she may cheat (though there's some that would), but because you never want a woman to LEARN TO LIVE WITHOUT YOU. That's what you should be afraid of!

It seems to be the case with DDJ was well. I hear myself saying it to myself over and over.

Anyway, this is the beginning of week 3. It will be harder because I know he has a bill due down here on Friday. I don't know if he'll come down to pay it or he will blow it off like he's done every other aspect of his life. Nevertheless, knowing it's a possibility will make the week tough. If he comes to me, I will have to push the doctor issue, which he'll leave me again for I'm sure. If he doesn't bother to call me, it will feel like he doesn't care. I'm screwed either way. So, what's new with DDJ??

All I know is that I've NEVER shut him down. This is the first time I've ever taken a stand. I feel like if I blow it or back down, he will never take me seriously again. I've been so supportive (too supportive) and I think he thinks I don't have backbone. This may be my only opportunity (cuz let's face it, he's usually leaving me) to shut him down for once. To show him I can leave IF NEED BE.

P.S. I'm sounding all tough (hehe) right now, but we all know if he said ONE WORD, "Baby!" or "Princess!", I'd be swooning all over him. HOW GRADESCHOOL IS THAT! HAHA! I'm retarded.

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by chloe09 » Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:45 am

Bri ... so sorry you're having such a crappy night :(Insomnia is a nightmare and makes things so much worse. Lack of sleep makes everything harder to deal with!

Loneliness is a very powerful emotion. Trust me, I know it well. It hurts like hell, and feeling abandoned just compacts the loneliness. Night time is the worst time for loneliness I find, especially if you live alone. When I was howling my eyes out the other night I kept saying "I feel so alone, I feel so alone" .... it's such an awful feeling. So I truly understand how you're feeling Bri.

Leaving a woman alone too long can be dangerous. Not so much because she may cheat (though there's some that would), but because you never want a woman to LEARN TO LIVE WITHOUT YOU. That's what you should be afraid of!


Ahh so much truth in that!!!!

Anyway, this is the beginning of week 3. It will be harder because I know he has a bill due down here on Friday. I don't know if he'll come down to pay it or he will blow it off like he's done every other aspect of his life. Nevertheless, knowing it's a possiblity will make the week tough. If he comes to me, I will have to push the doctor issue, which he'll leave me again for I'm sure. If he doesn't bother to call me, it will feel like he doesn't care. I'm screwed either way. So, what's new with DDJ??



I know what you're feeling, confused is a good way to sum it up. You desperately want to see, talk and touch him BUT you know you have to stick to your boundaries that he needs to get help in order for your relationship to survive. A part of you doesn't want to confront him on the doctor issue again because you think it will push him away again .... but the other part of you is saying that you must in order for him to know you mean it!! Am I right?

All I know is that I've NEVER shut him down. This is the first time I've ever taken a stand. I feel like if I blow it or back down, he will never take me seriously again. I've been so supportive (too supportive) and I think he thinks I don't have backbone. This may be my only opportunity (cuz let's face it, he's usually leaving me) to shut him down for once. To show him I can leave IF NEED BE.


Yep yep, if you just let it slide, he will think you he's "got away with it" and will continue to go on like nothing is wrong. I used to think the same thing with my man, that he thought I had no backbone, until I DID leave him, he knows I can and will again if need be. He knows I won't take his $#%^ ... your man needs to know the same ... I'm sure he's getting the message now!?

P.S. I'm sounding all tough (hehe) right now, but we all know if he said ONE WORD, "Baby!" or "Princess!", I'd be swooning all over him. HOW GRADESCHOOL IS THAT! HAHA! I'm retarded.


Nope, not gradeschool at all Bri. It's human I reckon. It's REALLY HARD to be all tough with someone you love, and they're being all schmoofy and loving ....

Hey, are you getting any counselling to help you through all this hun? It really helped me talking to the counsellor on Friday and also the support group on Saturday, just to be able to go "blaahhh" in a 'safe place' as such. And of course counsellors are good because they're trained to help people going through hard times etc.

Just a thought. I really really hope you DO get to see your man this week and hopefully get something sorted asap. I know this is torture :cry:

chloe09

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by chloe09 » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:42 pm

One more thing Bri, the Counsellor I saw is free. I can get 6 free sessions with her. I'm in Australia though so don't know if it's the same in the USA, but there are a lot of resources for people with mental illness, people who care for someone with mental illness etc.

Also, I would strongly suggest doing some research on support groups (which are also free).

Hmmm ... just one more thought (god I'm full of them lol) ... perhaps if he does come down Friday, his sister could come down as well and you could both talk to him about his DD????

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by Bri » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:07 am

Well, I'm here to make an emotional deposit at the Psych Forum Bank & Trust! I gotta be freakin' rich by now.

I had dinner with my DDJ's sister tonight. Her husband works nights, so it works out really well visiting her. We have privacy and whatever to "talk". While I was there, her phone rang away with family calling due to more "drama". None of this will have any interest to you, but I just got to smirk about the whole situation...which is this.

When my DDJ leaves, he goes to his mom's in the country. She moved there to have a QUIET life. She was married to his dad for years (he was delusional AND physically abusive), then finally left with her 5 kids. She then met and married a man, who cheated on her. They split up and he married the "other woman". She finished raising her kids alone and stayed single to this day.

Now...my DDJ's brother (who is also delusional) lives next door to her. That's a whole other story. However, this brother stayed friends with the mom's ex-2nd husband all these years. Well, the ex-2nd husdand's wife (the "other woman") now 25 years later, divorces and kicks him out. The brother says to him, "Come stay at mom's. She's not doing anything!" And can YOU BELIEVE she says, OKAY? So at Christmas, her delusional son has her ex (the one that cheated) move in with her cuz he had no where to go. Then.....my man, having all his problems, decides to GO UP THERE TOO, but GET THIS...he can't STAND his ex-step father!!

Add to that, the phone calls tonight when I was at the sister's were about the mom's blood brother. He's been married 40 plus years and just got thrown out of his house because he attacked his wife due to onset of dementia (they're like in their 70s). The police made him leave, so he is headed TO THE COUNTRY! HER HOUSE! So, here is the mom - in a TWO bedroom trailer - one son next door having all kinds of problems - her 2nd ex husband living with her - her other son, my man, on the couch for months (and has a problem with his ex-stepdad) - and now her own brother is coming. AN EX CHEATING HUSBAND, TWO DELUSIONALS, AND A DEMENTIA! Un-freakin-believable! There is NO fiction ever written that can outdo REAL LIFE! You COULDN'T MAKE THIS CRAP UP IF YOU TRIED!

As far as my personal situation goes. I have good days and bad. I really miss him (as always), but as I said before, I feel like I can't back down. If I don't make a stand, he will never take me seriously again. And, he's been giving less and less these past many months. I've told him I don't ask for much (and I DON'T), but I have to at least KNOW HE CARES SOMETIMES (in between all the bashing). That's what keeps me holding on. He gave a little, but not much, then he left again, etc., so I keep saying this "test" is about MORE than just my stand. It's also saying, "Hey, if you can't GIVE A LITTLE, then why am I trying so hard?" If he can't break down FOR ONCE, then I can't give anymore. I'm all DRAINED OUT. It's like a car. You have to put SOME GAS in it, or it won't run.

And just so you know, he's still doing NOTHING up there. I can't imagine what hell he must be in that he has to stow himself away in place so removed from the world, plus while away the hours with people he doesn't even like, when he has a house, a bed, and a woman right here who loves him. Isn't this illness the damnest thing?

 

 

by qwerty » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:47 am

It really is. DD is almost possible to believe, until you see it happen.

I don't know if you can find the thread (he requested it be deleted at one point), but there was a poster here who was convinced other people on the Internet were smelling him through his computer. It is sad to read, but extremely fascinating at the same time. I think his login name was J86, or similar.

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by chloe09 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:13 pm

It really is Bri ... it's truly baffling.

I tell ya, that whole family situation of your mans is .... well it's more full than the Days of Our Lives script! What a nightmare for his Mum. You know being in all that chaos can't be helping him, so yes you're right it doesn't make sense that he wouldn't want to be at home with you. Damn this illness!

chloe09

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by Bri » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:22 pm

qwerty wrote: It really is. DD is almost possible to believe, until you see it happen.

I don't know if you can find the thread (he requested it be deleted at one point), but there was a poster here who was convinced other people on the Internet were smelling him through his computer. It is sad to read, but extremely fascinating at the same time. I think his login name was J86, or similar.



Oh, wow, yes, I did read all that. He was CONVINCED people could smell him through the internet. I wonder what ever happened to him?

Bri

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by bsc » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:26 pm

And then there was the lady whose husband was convinced that there were people inside of him working on his brain trying to repair it..... Don't remember who - about 3-4 years ago.

Fascinating but sad.

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by Bri » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:51 pm

Okay, I'm a mess. I take NO responsibility for what I'm about to say. I'm sure it sounds like the ravings of a lunatic.

Most of you know, I started this thread when I found out my DDJ gave his phone number via email to another woman (he knew from gradeschool) on New Years. We were apart at the time (longest ever), and it was hard to take. She eventually wrote back with her phone number (which I thought was WEIRD because SHE'S MARRIED), but anyhow, I deleted it from his page. He never knew she wrote back, we worked things out, and nothing else ever happened. UNTIL NOW....

He rarely logs into his account, but I noticed he did today. I logged in too and I'll be damned if that girl didn't write him again and left her number AGAIN. Since I've been leaving his account alone, I did not see it ahead of time to delete it, so he read it and has her number now. I tried to make sure he never had it because I thought it was too much of a distraction for him to NOT take care of what he needs to take care of. That if he had someone else to talk to, etc., he wouldn't focus on what needs to be done with us.

Finding that today, really hurt, but at the same time I thought, "I can't keep monitoring and censoring his mail forever." If he wants to call her or anyone else, he has a right to. If he wants to move on, he has a right to. I feel I'm under enough stress with all that goes on with his illness without adding ONE MORE THING to the pile. Now I don't just have to worry about if he's ever coming home or not, or if he'll go to the doctor, but I also get to worry about her. I have to wonder WHY he didn't changed his password or why he didn't delete it, as he knows I sign on, but then I wonder if he didn't do it on purpose (left it there) for me to see. Part of my punishment, etc. It really doesn't matter, as the hurt is the same. As my mind swims around this, I realize my only other option IS TO JUST QUIT all together. If I did, I would not have to worry anymore. It's very tempting, as I am exhausted.

Whether I do or don't, however, does not change my resolution. Three weeks ago, I made a stand (and it was long overdue)...and in spite of this new development, I'm not breaking down. Sure I want to scream and cry. Sure I want to call him up and confront him (or her). Sure I want to send a nasty letter...but I will do none of those things (well, maybe scream and cry). If I did, I would be breaking my stand. Somehow, this "stand" seems important. I can't explain it, it's just something I "know". Whether it benefits him or me in the end, I can't say, I just know it's right.

On my drive home from work today, I was thinking about everybody on the board here (past and present) and all their stories, and all their pain. At some point, the story always ends. I wish so much I could someday come to this board and say, "Hey, my man went to the doctor, is taking meds, and we are doing so much better!" The sad reality is, I will most likely be saying, "I am done. It's over." Then later, "That happened to me and it's all behind me now." My heart goes out to ALL OF YOU who have to deal with this illness. May you someday find peace.....

Bri

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by chloe09 » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:41 am

May you someday find peace.....


And also you Bri.

Umm just a thought, can you perhaps call this woman and tell her what's going on and not to get involved?

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by Bri » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:13 pm

I've thought of everything from calling her husband and telling him his wife is writing some guy online to calling her myself and trying to be civil and explain. No matter WHAT I do, I look like the jealous girlfriend. She has not seen him since gradeschool, had a crush on him back then, is dying to talk to him again, and I don't think there's anything I could say that she wouldn't dismiss. When we have an agenda, we often IGNORE what is in OUR FACES. She has an agenda.

It's all still open for debate though. I'm not sure he WILL call her. He may have left the mail there just to get my goat (because I've shut him down for 3 weeks). Who knows? He may call her, catch up, and never talk to her again. He may end up having a full blown affair with her. Hell, I don't know. I CAN ONLY CONTROL ME. I told myself ALWAYS that I would stay in this until my last breath...UNLESS...there was cheating involved. That would be the point I would have to give up. He knows I saw her old mail, he knows I am pissed he wrote her back. If he doesn't see the need to explain or reassure me that he IS NOT cheating, I see no reason to stand by him any further. EVERYBODY has a line, no matter HOW understanding and supportive you are. THIS IS MINE.

Have been doing some more writing lately. I put this together last night. I'm sure I'll change it a million times before it's all said and done, but here is the gist of it. Since we're all in this together, my words speak for all of us. I know you will "get it".

"I WAIT FOR YOU"

Here I sit another day
...Watching my life pass away
A dry dandelion head, caught in the breeze
Lost on the meadows, swallowed by the seas

Yearning haunts me in the night
... No sleep comes before the light
A dispirited vampire, left on her own
No hunger for blood, but "love" that is gone

All of me, I gave to you
...With my dreams, though they be few
Sacrifice of an addict, who'd lose it all
For a chance to fly, avoiding the fall

Every day you're gone from me
...Leaves me only make-believe
Like a fairytale princess, I wait for you
The warmth of your kiss, my dreams to come true

Bri

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by chloe09 » Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:15 am

I've thought of everything from calling her husband and telling him his wife is writing some guy online to calling her myself and trying to be civil and explain. No matter WHAT I do, I look like the jealous girlfriend. She has not seen him since gradeschool, had a crush on him back then, is dying to talk to him again, and I don't think there's anything I could say that she wouldn't dismiss. When we have an agenda, we often IGNORE what is in OUR FACES. She has an agenda.


So she's married hmmmm. Well I wouldn't contact the husband, you're potentially inviting a whole lot more drama into your life that you definitely don't need. Calling her could just make her more determined to see him. Perhaps you could write a message on his page that makes it clear he's in a relationship? I don't know, this is a sticky one. But as you say, you think she has an agenda, so yes she's probably determined to do what she wants anyway.

It's all still open for debate though. I'm not sure he WILL call her. He may have left the mail there just to get my goat (because I've shut him down for 3 weeks). Who knows? He may call her, catch up, and never talk to her again. He may end up having a full blown affair with her. Hell, I don't know. I CAN ONLY CONTROL ME. I told myself ALWAYS that I would stay in this until my last breath...UNLESS...there was cheating involved. That would be the point I would have to give up.


This is the hardest part Bri, debating the various scenarios in your head, not fun at all. He may have left the message there to bait you, like "see, someone else wants me" blah blah The thing is, as he's so bad with his illness at the moment, IF he did talk or catch up with her, it would probably be fairly obvious something is wrong?

He knows I saw her old mail, he knows I am pissed he wrote her back. If he doesn't see the need to explain or reassure me that he IS NOT cheating, I see no reason to stand by him any further. EVERYBODY has a line, no matter HOW understanding and supportive you are. THIS IS MINE.


I totally hear you! The thing is because he's DDJ, he's convinced you cheat on him and he can't trust you etc, so perhaps he doesn't see why he has to convince you he isn't? Am I making sense here?

That's a beautiful poem, it describes so well how I feel as well

Keep writing Bri ... we're here for you

chloe09

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by Bri » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:14 am

chloe09 wrote: Perhaps you could write a message on his page that makes it clear he's in a relationship?


Oh, you're gonna love this. I built his page, maintain it, TOOK ALL THE PICS, put all the kewl stuff on there, all to make him look good! I am not only in his pic albums from various events, I am on his Top Friends. And get this...MY PROFILE PIC in his Top Friends is of ME AND HIM together! Then there's the posted comments I've made over time that say, "Baby this, Honey that". The deal is...these  b*tches KNOW HE HAS A GIRLFRIEND....and THEY DON'T CARE!

It's not USUALLY a problem. I handle all his mail and when girls write, I reply friendly, and move on. They think it's him. I never worried because he let me handle it. The problem WITH THIS ONE?? She knew him personally from his past. She THINKS she KNOWS him, but she don't know JACK. She knew him in freakin' GRADESCHOOL! However, he actually took the time to write this one. Yes, she's been married for 15 years (I looked it up), but I am a WOMAN and I KNOW what women say when they're trying to hook up...and SHE is up to no good. She doesn't know I'M THE ONE WHO READ ALL HER MAILS OVER THE LAST 6 MONTHS. Not that there were a lot, but she wrote him, and he didn't remember her. She had to give him a few clues, etc., and mails went back and forth before he finally remembered her. Then he had nothing to say. The few replies she even got were from ME BUGGING HIM to say SOMETHING! Then I WROTE IT for him!! The point is...her choice of words is NOT THE TYPE that comes from a 15 year married woman. He has ignored her from day one, UNTIL NEW YEARS when he decided to get online and WRITE HER LIKE they were best friends. Then he never logged in again for over 3 months. She eventually wrote back and I deleted it because she put her phone number in it. He never knew and she never wrote again. I thought it was DONE. I freaked out when I saw she had written again and gave her number AGAIN. YES, I'm rambling, and, YES, I'm p*ssed!!

chloe09 wrote: IF he did talk or catch up with her, it would probably be fairly obvious something is wrong?


Probably not for awhile. He's pretty good and being normal when he is single. He wouldn't scare her off that fast. They'd have to start hanging out and him feel comfortable before he would start sharing his life stories with her. Once he does that, you just think "Oh, wow, he had a really bad ex-girlfriend". You don't really think he's delusional. It's only when YOU become involved, and he starts with his bizaare accusations, etc. that you begin to say, "Uh oh".

chloe09 wrote: The thing is because he's DDJ, he's convinced you cheat on him and he can't trust you etc, so perhaps he doesn't see why he has to convince you he isn't? Am I making sense here?


Of course...

Bri

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by chloe09 » Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:53 pm

Bri, how are you doing? Are you ok??

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by Bri » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:00 pm

Okay, I want to kick and scream. Here goes!

I got a call from my DDJ's sister. HE CAME BACK YESTERDAY, did a job, and turned right around and went back up to the country. I'm SO pi**ed! He didn't call, he didn't come by, and I even have some of his things I know he wants! And what a perfect time to get his stuff, as he had his brother with him and a reason to escape quickly without having to deal with anything. When I mentioned that to his sister, she said, "Well, he's saving it. To see you again." I said, "WHAAAATTTTTT! You don't leave a woman hanging MAD for weeks and months and then just call up and say, "Hey, what's up?" If he had ONE INKLING AT ALL that he wanted to see me again, he should be calling and saying SOMETHING! I have a mind to just take his stuff over to his sister's and drop it off. Then it takes away any SAVING UP purposes he may have. If I don't mean that much for him to make the smallest effort, what the heck am I doing in this anyway?? Okay, I'm going off to have a nuclear meltdown now....

Bri

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by leavingthedarkness » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:47 pm

Bri, calm down. Remember, DDJs are unpredictable, they do not think like we think. So when you start to analyze him from your point of view, it simply does not work.

One thing that I'd like to point out from my own experience with my DDJ husband is, they seem to be "shy" or act more cowardly when it comes to actions they need to take toward "problems" about us.

It is possible that your DDJ simply got scared. He is afraid of see you. It is much more comfortable for him to retreat back to hiding, to resume his "peace".

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by Bri » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:31 am

I told him all along that if he wanted me to hang on, he would have to give me something to hold on to (from time to time). No matter how bad things got, he always managed to do that. This time, he's not. What's REALLY jacked up is he was able to do that for me BEFORE the doctor talk. You would think now that he knows he's got a problem, he would lighten up with me. I EVEN TOLD him the day we had the doctor talk, "You've GOT to lighten up now that you know this. I'm dying here!" Soooo.......HOW IS IT NOW THAT HE KNOWS, HE STOPS MAKING AN EFFORT ALL TOGETHER??? How does THAT happen??? I'm soooo irked right now!

And, yes, for all the fire they spit for days on end, why do they shy away when it comes to FIXING, AMENDING, or HOLDING ON?? Of course, I SAY that, but a friend of mine told me about a year ago, "Bri, you're thinking this all wrong. It may SEEM like he doesn't care because he's gone. But you need to remember that HE THINKS you've cheated and he's come back time and again. You know IF YOU thought your man was cheating, would you be able to go back to him over and over? Wouldn't it take A LOT OF LOVE to keep going back?" I knew she was right, when you put it that way. Him believing that and coming back over and over shows me he really was trying to "live with it." All the ranting and police calling he did that week he was here, and he still wrote me a note saying, "I Love You!" Dammit, I KNOW he loves me, and I LOVE HIM, so why, why, why does this illness have to steal that? I HATE IT!

Bri

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by chloe09 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:38 am

Oh Bri, wish I could give you a hug hun, I feel your pain and frustration, I really do.

It is SO hard when you know they love you. It's not surprising you feel so angry and annoyed he didn't come and see you, I would feel exactly the same! I know this may sound like a cop out but I think somewhere in there amongst the delusions, they're trying to protect us from all this, they pull away because they love us and don't want to hurt and punish us, even though they do by pushing us away. Like as my man was getting into this latest episode he started pulling away and I called him on it and he kept saying he didn't want to add to my stress, that it was better for me to just leave it and things like that. It was like he was fighting it, knew what was coming and wanted to push me away before it got really bad.

I EVEN TOLD him the day we had the doctor talk, "You've GOT to lighten up now that you know this. I'm dying here!" Soooo.......HOW IS IT NOW THAT HE KNOWS, HE STOPS MAKING AN EFFORT ALL TOGETHER??? How does THAT happen??? I'm soooo irked right now!



It's probably for that very reason that he is avoiding you, it's the same with my man. They know if we see them or speak to them we're going to push them to get help, so they just avoid it all together. I can imagine them thinking "STOP telling me there's something wrong, there's nothing wrong with ME".

God, it's all so so frustrating isn't it.

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by Bri » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:14 am

chloe09 wrote: I know this may sound like a cop out but I think somewhere in there amongst the delusions, they're trying to protect us from all this, they pull away because they love us and don't want to hurt and punish us, even though they do by pushing us away. Like as my man was getting into this latest episode he started pulling away and I called him on it and he kept saying he didn't want to add to my stress, that it was better for me to just leave it and things like that. It was like he was fighting it, knew what was coming and wanted to push me away before it got really bad.


Yes!

chloe09 wrote: It's probably for that very reason that he is avoiding you, it's the same with my man. They know if we see them or speak to them we're going to push them to get help, so they just avoid it all together. I can imagine them thinking "STOP telling me there's something wrong, there's nothing wrong with ME".


YES!

chloe09 wrote :God, it's all so so frustrating isn't it.



AND YES AGAIN!


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by chloe09 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:37 am

lol glad you agree, at least we know WE'RE not going "crazy" !!!

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by Bri » Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:28 am

Well, today is 4 weeks since I made my stand. It's been hard, but I still feel like it is the right thing to do. I go crazy some days, but hanging out with his sister and her family has been quite helpful in passing time (and this board). I'm lucky she has allowed me in her life.

She told me last night that nothing has changed with him up in the country. He is still just sitting. She said she probably needed to break down and just go up there, if she was ever going to have "her" talk with him. I really urged her to because I told her she is probably the only one who: (1) knows his entire history, so he can't BS her about stuff; (2) trust her (she has no agenda); (3) has the guts to get in his face if he gets stupid. She beat him up when they were kids and, to this day, he won't get too pissy with her (haha); and (4) her kids have a dopamine problem as well, so she can speak intelligently about the issues with him.

I also told her that it took FOREVER for someone (me) to finally put this on the table with him. TO TELL HIM HE HAS A MEDICAL PROBLEM. He even received it quite well. Now, since we are not speaking, he has been busy (I'm sure) burying that conversation, sticking his head in the sand. No one is up there prodding him. I told the sister this issue needs to BE KEPT ON THE TABLE. SOMEONE needs to revisit the medical talk with him. ONLY SHE CAN DO THIS. She agreed and says she'll soon make plans to go. I hope she gets through to him....though I know I'm only dreaming.

Lastly, I saw he logged into his myspace. I always cringe when I see this cuz I think he's probably talking to that girl. But I take comfort in that he hasn't deleted me or my pics from his page. I guess when he does that I will know he is really done. If he's trying to see other women, wouldn't he delete our stuff, so it didn't look like he had a girlfriend? Oh, well, I'm probably just reaching......

I really miss him, but I'm not breaking down. Somehow this seems important for me to do. I hope all of you someday find peace in your situations. I've never seen anything so destructive to a relationship. I used to think cheating was the end-all for a relationship, but as you know, couples recover from even that. Some even go on and never have the problem again. With DDJ, there is no recovery....just various levels of bad (i.e. not too bad, bad, very bad). It's a black hole that drains all that you have and is hungry for more.

Until next time.....

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by chloe09 » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:54 am

Hey Bri, sorry I haven't responded sooner to this post. I think you're doing really well for the 4 weeks since you made your stand. Thank goodness you have his sister to hang out with and talk to about all this.

Has his sister decided yet on when she will approach him about all this? Does she know how she's going to approach it?

I understand how much you must be missing him, it's terribly hard.
You're being so strong Bri, you should be very proud of yourself.

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by Bri » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:52 am

Thanks Chloe. Answering your question, the sister is going to go up to the country and take my DDJ fishing. Try to have a nice long chat with him about his ENTIRE history and work her way up to chemical imbalance and doctor. None of us know if it will work or not. It's my last shot.

On with the update....

I was over at the sister's this evening watching a movie. Their mom called while I was there, but the sister didn't tell her I was. The mom said my DDJ is STILL sitting on the couch, no plans, no life, nothing. The sister CASUALLY made a comment "Oh, wow! I thought he came back down here and was dating some girl. He's still up there?" Mom says, "Oh, please. He isn't dating anybody. He hasn't left here for anything but fishing." The sister already knew that...she was just trying to find out FOR ME if my man has been talking to that girl from myspace. Kind of tricky, I guess...but it was NICE to hear he wasn't talking to anyone. However, it doesn't change the dilemma as a whole. But my heart feels better.

The mom did say that he was "snapping" on every body up there now too. Who knows what that will bring???

Anyway, the sister won't have a vehicle she can take up there for at least a week or more. So I still have a long wait to find out what happens.

Until then.....(or my next breakdown).......

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by Bri » Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:34 am

Okay, I'm having my next breakdown (yes, so soon)!

I feel since I've made this stand (4 1/2 weeks now), my DDJ must not care too much, as he has not contacted me at all. I'm really trying to accept that "that" is his answer. It is done. So, I shouldn't be wondering what he's doing, or continue hanging on. What would be the point, right?

In spite of the evidence before me, I find myself not believing he's done. Maybe I'M the ONE who's delusional! For instance, he had not erased me from his myspace page. He didn't get his things from me, though he was in town and could have done so. But it does seem as if he's trying to get a reaction from me (unless that's just my wishful thinking??). Coming in town and leaving again, he knew would bug me. I didn't call him. He deleted my Christmas mail, yet made a point to leave that girl's mail with her phone #. I still didn't call him. I told my girlfriend what I thought he was doing and my fear that if I didn't respond soon, he would escalate his tactics. It could get painful. Yet, I still believe my stand is the right thing to do, so what do I do? I told her 2 days ago that his next move will be to delete me from his page.

So, here it is. He deleted me today from his top friends though he didn't delete me all together. He still didn't delete the pics of us in his albums, or my many posted comments, but I'm sure those will be next. I'm so IRKED! It's like he's kicking the dog. I think, "Why don't you just delete it ALL and GET IT OVER WITH?" Then I think, if I'm right about him wanting a reaction, "Well, that wouldn't leave him any more fire. If he deletes me one piece at a time, he can drag it out. See if I don't finally cave in."

I expected this to be next, so I shouldn't be upset...BUT I AM! It hurts because I have days I hope he is missing me and wants to talk. When I see stuff like this, it feels like he's deleting me from his life. Which he is!

Okay, I'm off to have a melt down....cry....scream and kick...etc.

 

by chloe09 » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:35 am

Oh Bri, I don't know what to say, just wanna give you a hug.

You're probably right in that he's "fishing" for a reaction from you. It's so manipulative and cruel. Cry and scream as much as you need to, get it ALL out! Can you get his sister to come around and be with you? Someone you can let it all out with, a shoulder to cry on, someone you feel really comfortable with. I'm so sorry you're going through this pain, NO ONE should have to go through this :(

Strength and hugs Bri.

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by Bri » Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:32 am

Yes, I went to his sister's tonight cuz I was sooo upset. She said she talked to him on the phone today and he mentioned me in a passing statement (nothing big). But she felt like she could say something then about me (since he brought me up first). She mentioned I'd come over to see her a few times, which gave him ANOTHER opportunity to say something about it (to show it's over). As in, "What's SHE doing over there?" or "She doesn't need to be coming over there." And, like ALWAYS, he didn't say one word. Then she says, "Well, you know Bri has your tile saw." And he says, "I know," then changes the subject. She then says to me, "Bri, I know my brother. He wants that tile saw. And if he wasn't using it as a way to keep the door open, he would have told me straight up to get it for him." I then say, "What AM I DOING? I just don't know anymore! Everything seems to spell he's done and I'm holding on to nothing, yet I feel like all these little hits are to get a reaction because I'm not kissing his ass anymore. If he was done/done, he wouldn't bother messing with me all. He'd just been done with it. Please tell me if you think I'm dreaming here! The minute you think you're brother is done and I'm just in bubble land, tell me! You would tell me wouldn't you?" She looks at me and nods yes. Then says, "He's not done Bri."

Furthermore, why did he bring me up to his sister AT ALL? Once again (and I could be wrong), I think it was his way of seeing if the sister would tell him something (without him looking like he was asking about me). He didn't NEED to bring me up to her! As I write this, 3 things come to mind. (1) We always say stop analyzing the DD because you will be wrong anyway. Here I am trying to analyze what he's doing or not doing. Why do I keep doing this? His actions could mean everything and they could mean nothing. (2) Even though his sister believes he is not done (confirming my sense of the matter), I have to ask myself, "Why does it matter?" If I've let go this far, shouldn't I just let go for real. Wouldn't we all just be better off? What am I trying to go back to???? (3) If he thinks there's even an inkling he will see me again, why drag this out? Why not just pick up the phone and have it out? (<----okay, this is trying to analyze again).

I told the sister tonight that her visit with him is my last hope. His too, but he just doesn't realize it. His whole life is on hold until he gets this fixed. Anyway, I told her even if it goes WELL and he hears it all, no muss, no fuss, once she leaves, it will still be up to him to do something about it. I don't see that happening. If he chooses to do nothing about his illness after that, I don't think there's anything left. He's just lost (and then, of course, so are we). She's trying to go up around April 18. OMG, that is 3 weeks away! And in the meantime, he's busy erasing me out of his life.

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by leavingthedarkness » Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:47 am

I told the sister tonight that her visit with him is my last hope. His too, but he just doesn't realize it. His whole life is on hold until he gets this fixed. Anyway, I told her even if it goes WELL and he hears it all, no muss, no fuss, once she leaves, it will still be up to him to do something about it.

 

NO, it cannot be up to him!! How many times have we seen our DDJ seemed to "understand", or said: "you do have a point." then maybe an hour, or a day later, they were back to their delusional world??

 

Is it possible that you make a plan of actions with his sister, that if she sees any acceptance in him, right there, right then, take him to a doc. (She might have to make an appointment in advance, I don't exactly know) My point is, I have seen too many times, the seemingly "glimpse of light" came and disappeared too soon.

Stop OVER-analyzing and try to get some sleep, girl!!

(Bri, I am going to bed, but I want to comment on this quickly, I will write to you tomorrow morning.)

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by chloe09 » Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:06 pm

Bri, I'm glad you had some company and his sister gives you some comfort. So many things going through your mind, it's so confusing and exhausting.

Hope you're having a good, peaceful sleep and you can do something nice just for yourself soon.

Take care now.

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by Bri » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:30 am

leavingthedarkness wrote: NO, it cannot be up to him!! How many times have we seen our DDJ seemed to "understand", or said: "you do have a point." then maybe an hour, or a day later, they were back to their delusional world??

 

Is it possible that you make a plan of actions with his sister, that if she sees any acceptance in him, right there, right then, take him to a doc. (She might have to make an appointment in advance, I don't exactly know) My point is, I have seen too many times, the seemingly "glimpse of light" came and disappeared too soon.


I agree, but I don't think up in the country, she is going to get him to go to the doctor right then and there. I agree it would best, but I don't see it happening like that. The best case scenario is that IF he listens, IF he agrees, she will have to come back to town, make an appointment, get him to come back too, then take him herself. OR...she'll have to come home, make an appointment up there, go back up there, and take him. The few days she'll be there will not be enough for her to pull it all off in one visit. Of course, I could see if she would make an appointment UP THERE before even going UP THERE, but I remember last time there was talk of appointments UP THERE, he refused to go. At this point, I just want to see what he says about it all. Their talk. If it goes well, the door is open for him to be approached again. If he blows up, no one is going to want to attempt it again. Then ... it will be a matter of waiting until he snaps and the police get involved, etc. You know the drill.................................

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by chloe09 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:38 am

Hmm this is difficult, I do see what leavingthedarkness is saying in that if he shows some insight, the best case scenario would be to act on it immediately. I do see however how with the current situation that isn't as easy to make happen, with where he's living etc.

Just thinking, could his sister ask him down to her place for the day?? Say ask him down to have lunch etc, she could make an appointment with a doctor prior to this in the hope that he agrees to go, if he doesn't well, just have to cancel the appointment. Perhaps she could present as he must be getting bored in the country and she'd love to have him down to her place for the day, to enjoy a day together etc??
I dunno, I'm just trying to think of ways around this :?

“Are you upset little friend? Have you been lying awake worrying? Well, don't worry...I'm here. The flood waters will recede, the famine will end, the sun will shine tomorrow, and I will always be here to take care of you. -Charlie Brown to Snoopy”

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by Bri » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:44 am

Well, yeah, that would be a great idea. He used to stay with her all the time. Except the last time he was there (the 10 days we spent on her couch back in January), he flipped out on her husband and went after him with a bat! He smoothed it over enough that he can go by and visit okay, but he won't "stay" there anymore.

It is a tricky thing with where he lives. I'm not sure there even IS a doctor qualified up there in the country. That has a knowledge of DD. Not sure how to go about it, but his sister has said many times she ought to call a doctor and establish a relationship. The trick is getting him back down HERE to go.

Bri

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by chloe09 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:50 am

Ooooh gawd this is difficult! Ok, can you or his sister contact the doctor where he lives and find out if he/she has knowledge of DD??? If they do, then perhaps one of you can discuss your partner and that you're trying to get him to see a doctor and then make an appointment on the day his sister goes to talk to him?????

“Are you upset little friend? Have you been lying awake worrying? Well, don't worry...I'm here. The flood waters will recede, the famine will end, the sun will shine tomorrow, and I will always be here to take care of you. -Charlie Brown to Snoopy”

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by Bri » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:16 am

Okay, this is probably not a healthy way to spend my time, but it's 4 am and I can't sleep. I was looking at my old thread, and saw the days he's been gone. I have to say...it really TICKED me off.

( 1 ) Gone for 5 days (over the guy who brought the coat)

( 2 ) Gone for 8 days (same thing, but now general suspicion too)

( 3 ) Gone for 11 days (saw an old post I made to a guy friend of mine)

( 4 ) Gone for 32 days (general mistrust, can't do it anymore)

( 5 ) Then we had the "5 good weeks"

( 6 ) Gone for 60 days (saw him 1 weekend cuz I went up there)(left because he thinks he saw me with a guy on a DVD)

( 7 ) Came back, but went to his sister's. I spent 13 days on the couch with him there

( 8 ) Spent 8 days here, then we went up 2 days to the country, brought me home, went back

( 9 ) Gone 14 days (saw him 2 weekends in a row)

( 10 ) Now we've not spoken for 35 days (total days gone - 49)

Question.....AM I FREAKIN' CRAZY????

Bri

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by chloe09 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:14 pm

No you're not crazy, you're in love. Hope you feel better today Bri.

“Are you upset little friend? Have you been lying awake worrying? Well, don't worry...I'm here. The flood waters will recede, the famine will end, the sun will shine tomorrow, and I will always be here to take care of you. -Charlie Brown to Snoopy”

 

by Bri » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:43 pm

Had a weird day yesterday.

First, I got a call at 8am from a business looking for my DDJ for an interview. He put MY phone number as the contact?? This is very weird, as he should have put the number where he lives. Was this on purpose (as in knowing they'd call and I would have to call him)? Or was it truly absentmindedness? Who can know? I didn't call him, I just gave the information to his sister to give to him. Guess that was the right thing to do.

Then...after work yesterday, I open my mail and there's a reply to my mail from the girl I've been griping about. I wrote her back in January after finding out my DDJ gave his phone number in an email to her on New Year's. She never replied to my mail, so it was forgotten. She replied yesterday to say she hadn't read my mail until just then (I don't believe that), is happily married and can't understand how I could possibly "assume" she wanted to "hook up" with my man. That all she wanted was to catch up since she hadn't seen him since gradeschool. Blah, blah, blah! She was somewhat snippy too. It really irked me and I wanted to snap back, but she has me over a barrel cuz I'm going to be asking her not to say anything to my DDJ about our correspondence. You can't really chew someone out and then ask for a favor! HA!

I wrote her back, was very nice, tried to explain that there is currently a "situation" I was not at liberty to discuss and I was under a lot of stress and worried about my DDJ,  that I hadn't meant to offend her....all that. The one thing I couldn't let go though was her comment about "how could you assume". I flat told her that I went back through all her mails from the beginning, AND SHE NEVER ONCE TOLD MY DDJ SHE WAS MARRIED or ever even mentioned her husband! She can act indignant all she wants, the fact is....she was caught and I think that's what bothered her. I don't think she realized other people read his mail! Anyway, I wasn't going to let that one slide.

After all that, I asked her not to tell. That I would appreciate her confidence, as I am trying to work something out with my man. I asked her to understand. I saw today that she read it, but she did not reply, so I have no idea if she's going to tell or not. At this point, I really don't care. I did damage control because I did, after all, write her first....but if she tells, she tells. I will let her tell him how terrible it all was, etc., then I will print off the mails and mail it to him, so he can see what was said. I'm sure she won't mention the 100 times I said I loved him and was worried about him. He will see that and know I meant well.

Lastly, the bright spot I guess, is the sister talked to the mom and sister-in-law up there Wednesday night and found out for me that my DDJ IS NOT TALKING to the girl (or any girl) on the phone or otherwise. That made me feel better, so getting that girl's mail yesterday was not as traumatizing as it could have been. I don't think she means anything to him, and that was all I cared about. Meanwhile, I'm in waiting (as usual). I have a couple of weeks to go before his sister makes it up there.

Whewwwwwwwwwwwwwww..................

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

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by chloe09 » Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:23 pm

Good lord, it's all happening isn't it Bri! I'm glad you feel reassured nothing is happening with that woman and your partner.

That is bizarre that your partner put down your phone number as a contact for the job prospect, hmmm. Is he up to working??

How are you doing?

“Are you upset little friend? Have you been lying awake worrying? Well, don't worry...I'm here. The flood waters will recede, the famine will end, the sun will shine tomorrow, and I will always be here to take care of you. -Charlie Brown to Snoopy”

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by Bri » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:41 am

Oh geeeezzzzz.....does it EVER end??????

Talked with the sister tonight. She thinks there's a possibility she will go up to the country this weekend instead of the 18th. I want SO BAD to believe she will, but I don't want to get my hopes up and she not make it.

When my DDJ was informed of the job offer, he simply said, "It's too far." THAT'S IT! It's TOO FAR????? THEN WHY DID HE EVEN FILL OUT THE STUPID THING and put MY number on it? Very weird.

Ohhhhh.....and here's a GOOD ONE! Almost a joke with a punchline, except it's no joke. When the sister was discussing with the mom about her car dilemma, the mom suggested she call BRI AND THAT I BRING HER UP. Forgive my language, but WTF???? The mom is sitting up there in the middle of all this. She knows what's going on. She knows me and him are having a stand off (or to him it's over). She knows darn good and well that I can't just show up there!!! If I did, who knows what kind of ruckus it would start. Did she say this absentmindedly? How could she not know what she was saying? Did she run it by my DDJ and he said it was okay, so she felt like she could suggest such a thing? Or....did she throw it out because she was being onery toward HIM, as she is tired of him JUST SITTING THERE? I'm having the sister ask her these questions the next time they talk. It just seemed so INSANE!

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

Bri

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by chloe09 » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:01 pm

Hey Bri

That's great that his sister is hopefully (fingers crossed!!) going up this weekend.

It sounds like his Mum doesn't really get the situation, doesn't have a 100% grip on just how things are .... who knows how this suggestion came up? You know, his Mum probably really wants you and him to 'sort things out' or whatever as it would at least remove him from her place, and ease her burden somewhat??

Perhaps she's feeling at the end of her rope with him?

“Are you upset little friend? Have you been lying awake worrying? Well, don't worry...I'm here. The flood waters will recede, the famine will end, the sun will shine tomorrow, and I will always be here to take care of you. -Charlie Brown to Snoopy”

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by Bri » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:20 am

This is a really bad day. I'm posting for shear survival here.

I decided yesterday I should send my DDJ a copy of the dopamine article. I hate to break my stand, but if say nothing personal, it's not really breaking it...is it? It was just information. It seems like 6 weeks is too long for him to sit up there and bury his head in the sand...I wanted to "refresh" our talk about him having a problem (without me actually having to say anything). Anyway, I squinted my eyes when I dropped it into the mail. On the way home, I felt pretty good about it. I didn't get that knot of pending doom in my stomach. I thought even if I get no positive response, it couldn't do any harm either. All was good.....

I get home and (long story short) find out my DDJ has been mailing The Girl on another email account. Only a few and they didn't say anything scandalous...but, still, it made me think this whole thing over again. I'm not so much hurt because I think they'll hook up (she's married), but that he can't write ME ONE WORD. He has NOT ONE WORD for me (but he can put MY NUMBER down on his employment application as his)! Why do I try so hard?...and, furthermore, if this is how it is, what am I doing sending him articles???? Then I did regret mailing it.

Update on sister is I saw her last night and she was going to ask her mom, who was coming today, to take her back up even though it's supposed to rain and she can't take him fishing. I'm not holding my breath because I don't think the mom wants to drive her 2 hours up, then back, then up again to go home. It will probably be on the 18th, but I don't think I can take it another minute. Right before I walked out the door, the sister made a comment that another family member said (of me), "Well, she's afraid of losing him." The sister said it so wistfully, it made me think EVERYBODY BUT ME believes I have (lost him). So, I said, "Do you think so? Do YOU think I have?" She said, "No, Bri. I don't think so. Not yet anyway." I said, "Please tell me when you think I have and I'm just not seeing it." She nodded. I went home thinking if anyone would know, it would be her...yet, maybe she just doesn't want to tell me the truth and hurt my feelings. Maybe she's just letting me come to the conclusion on my own.

I get so confused sometimes. I don't trust my own judgment in this anymore. I'm too tired. I so often tell people here that it comes down to them breaking or you. It's just a matter of who is first. I think I'm there. What's odd to me is that here I am on the threshold of the goal. That being getting him the medical information and his sister having a talk with him about going to the doctor. I JUST sent that article today....all that is left is the sister's talk (2 weeks away). It's just around the corner. But instead of it being a shiny moment of hope as it has been, it seems cloudy and meaningless. I'm so close, I would be fool to not see at least the small bit left after all I've been through. But I'm falling off the edge here. One hand is gripping the edge of the cliff and one hand is holding onto him. If I don't let him go, we both fall. Now imagine in real life if you and the one you love were actually hanging off the edge of a cliff. You can't hold onto them any longer. Your hand is slipping. Do you let them go (why both die?) or fall with them (die together)??? I'm not trying to be morbid, I'm just pointing out that the INDECISION of this, the AGONY, the EXHAUSTION, the ACCEPTANCE (one of you WILL go), the feelings are the same....

A few letters may seem like a small thing in comparison to all the drama I've been through with him, but it's the ole "straw that broke the camel's back" theory. Adding that straw to this pile has just pushed me flat to the ground. Rock bottom. The only light in that is there's no where to go now, but up. We'll see......

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

Bri

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Praying........................

by luvfrstgrade » Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:46 pm

Bri, you've given us so much strength, hope. I'm praying for you. I so feel what you are going through. This is so unfair. I sometimes think DDJ's are so evil, narcissitic, so self absorbed. Everything is all about them. As I was going through some personal belongings last night, ( getting ready to eventually have to leave this house), I came across some letters I, as well as our children had written to him in hopes he would seek help. It was like reliving the hell he has put me through. I don't know if I want to go through all of that again. And the pictures of us in happier times, it was so hard. I'm crying as I post. The sister in law knows, but she also knows what a good person you are and that you don't deserve this. Hopefully, one day God will intervene and he will see the light before he leaves the planet. As in my case, it'll probably be too late. I'm just trying to keep my sanity now.

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by chloe09 » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:09 am

Oh Bri, god I feel for you.

Loving someone can be so painful can't it. I can totally understand not wanting to let go, it doesn't feel right to let go of someone you love so much. It would be so much easier in a lot of ways if you could say "well he's an a-hole so I'm better off without him", but it's not that simple when someone has this illness!

Good on you for sending the article, I think that's a good thing. Maybe it will resonate with him somehow, who knows? It can't really hurt. You know what, no one else can tell you when to let go, that's completely up to you hun.

Please do something nice just for YOU, you deserve it ((((hugs))))

“Are you upset little friend? Have you been lying awake worrying? Well, don't worry...I'm here. The flood waters will recede, the famine will end, the sun will shine tomorrow, and I will always be here to take care of you. -Charlie Brown to Snoopy”

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by Bri » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:37 am

Thanks for the kind words you guys! I'm dying here....

Well, it doesn't look good. The sister called tonight. I haven't talked to her since last Thursday night. I was didn't call her all weekend because I was just as afraid she DID go up there, as she DIDN'T. I didn't want to know (yet I did). She called to say that she DID talk the mom into taking her back up on Friday night.

In a nutshell, the sister tried numerous times to talk to him and he either ran from her, ignored her, or gave her the evil look that said, "Don't talk to me." She basically got nowhere. She mentioned my name and said, "Bri's been over a few times. She said to tell you "hi" and that "she loves you". That was when she got one of the evil looks. So....apparently MY NAME IS CRAP to him. She said he looked terrible. He was pale, not shaven, and looked very stressed out. She was VERY upset talking to me about what happened because she said, "He has NEVER acted that way toward me. He kept looking at me as if I were some kind of traitor." I said, "Well, I don't know why he's upset with you. He's had many opportunities to say to either me or you that he doesn't want us hanging out and he's NEVER said a word. He mentioned to you 2 weeks ago about me taking you to the lake. He could have said then that he didn't like us talking....and he didn't." She said, "Well, yeah, and come to think of it...I got the evil look, but he STILL didn't tell me not to hang out with you, nor did he make any negative comments." I said, "If it was because of me, I'd think he'd have griped about it." What could he be so hostile about we wondered? I said, "Um, do you think he may have gotten that dopamine article I mailed Friday? Maybe he already read it by the time you got to him???" She said, "Ohhh, I never thought of that. Maybe he did? I don't know!" So, of course, we went round and round trying to figure it out.

The place he's living is a pressure cooker as well, so it doesn't help his condition. The only thing left is the sister is still going back up in two weeks (18th). She's taking the dopamine article and a money order up there to leave with the other brother's wife (that my DDJ is staying with). That wife is going to the local doctor that treats her husband (my DDJ's brother) the following week and the sister wants her to take the article and the money order with her and talk to the doctor about my DDJ, make him an appointment, then all of them try like hell to get him to go. They all want something done now, as they realize he is not going to come out of this on his own this time. It is not a phase.

In regard to wondering if the sister is sparing my feelings. She said, "I thought about not telling you that he gave me that look when your name came up because I knew it would hurt you, but I don't want to lie to you. I thought, no, she needs to know, so I told you." I said thanks, yes, I want the truth. But I think I can be sure now that she is going to be straight with me. I asked her one more time, "Well, I've done the last thing I could do by mailing the article. There's nothing else and I feel very discouraged by your news. I guess I've lost him then?" She said, "Well, it may be out of your hands all together now. There's nothing else you can do and doing anything more could make it worse. But I think he knows you love him. He hasn't shut the door completely. I know my brother and he would erase you from his life completely if he had hate toward you. He doesn't. He has never said the ugly things about you that he's said about his other exes when they were over. He says there are men in your windows and that crap, but he doesn't talk bad about you." I said, "Yeah, okay." What else can I say????

So, here we are again ... on hold. Or not. I don't know what to do anymore. He got on myspace today and read my blogs and still didn't delete my pics or lock me out, so what does that mean? Everything?? Nothing?? Why does he leave that door open if he's done? Geez...I just miss him, worry about him, and want so much to see him...comfort him...love him....yet, I know my presence aggravates him and would do more harm than good. I never thought I'd see the day that "love" could be turned into "poison", yet that's exactly what DDJ does.

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

Bri

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by jasmin » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:13 am

Hi, Bri! Sorry I haven't posted here in a while, I thought it would be more helpful for you to talk to someone who went through this.
Do you have any real reason to believe that you could be in a relationship with this guy at some point? Do you think he can give you what you need? If you can't see how that could happen, maybe you should try to forget him. It must be so hard for you to live like this..
Is that you in your avatar?

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by Bri » Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:52 pm

jasmin wrote: Sorry I haven't posted here in a while, I thought it would be more helpful for you to talk to someone who went through this.



JASMIN! I wondered what happened to you! Glad you came back.

jasmin wrote: Do you have any real reason to believe that you could be in a relationship with this guy at some point? Do you think he can give you what you need?


When he is not delusional, yes, he gives me what I need. When he's delusional....no. The only real hope I have in a "relationship with this guy at some point" is medication! I guess because he hasn't said yes or no is why I hold on. My DDJ is in the small group of DDs who have an "awareness" something is wrong (though he may not like it). He's indicated on several occasions he knows there is. One telling sign was his reaction when I had the "medical" talk with him. It had taken me SO long to even get it to him (research, facts, perfect timing, speech) <---in that order (haha). I expected an all out fight, but he listened. He didn't rant and rave at all. I actually TOLD HIM that most DDs do not have an awareness something is wrong, but that HE DOES, and that's why I believe he has a good chance with meds because he's not so far gone, he can't understand he's ill. It was curious to him that there "others" and that they had no awareness. It was all very strange that day, but all in all, he "got it". Had he point blank denied it, adamantly refused to listen, and stormed off unconvinced, it would be a whole different story. I would have given up then (I think...haha), but he took it well. Then he went to the country I KNOW! And here we are! The last stop is his sister going up next weekend. She's going to try one more time to get him to go to the doctor, if even only for his headaches. Of course, the doctor will already know his condition (DD).

jasmin wrote: If you can't see how that could happen, maybe you should try to forget him. It must be so hard for you to live like this..


Not to be a smarty face, but if I could "forget him" I would have already! HA! Every time he's left, I've tried to say forget it! Then I find myself reaching out to him again. What is my problem????

jasmin wrote: Is that you in your avatar?


Sure enough. Taken last summer with a friend. How come nobody else has a profile pic? Even if you don't use your face, people could put something cute or kewl! It's so clinical and sterile around here! It's not good for us depressed people! HA!

Come back...write soon!

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

Bri................

 

by luvfrstgrade » Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:29 pm

I'm glad he at least acknowledges that something is "wrong". I think there's still hope. He's blessed to have someone to stick by him. That's what hurts me so. My ex went through with the divorce no matter how hard my children and I tried to help him. I still think he has an arrogant spirit. Sometimes I think he has someone else which explains why he was so willing to throw me away like a piece of trash. Deep down your DDJ knows you love him and he loves you. I don't think that is the case in my situation. I'm asking God to just get me through each day. I'm still suffering.

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by jasmin » Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:39 pm

Hey, Bri! Ok, I'm going to stick around. Sorry I left.
You're very pretty!

You've decided to stick by this person and that's worthy of respect. I just didn't want you to hold on to this situation if there was no hope. It's always good if the person who has a problem is aware of it. Maybe he's scared of getting treatment or of facing what he's done in the past. I really hope his sister can convince him. It's been my experience that if you try to get someone who is abusive to you to change, they could use it against you, to gain more control or to hurt you more. It seems like that's not what he's doing.

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by Bri » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:42 am

Thank you all for replying.

This update is long. And, as usual, I don't write because I think you all want to read every detail...I write to survive this.

It turned out my DDJ did NOT get the article while the sister was up there. This was good and bad. It was good because I felt bad that I had maybe caused damage to their relationship by sending that article at the same time she was trying to talk to him. That he thought we had conspired an attack on him at the same time. But that was not the case. He got the article on Monday after she had left, so his anger toward her was separate. It was bad because she had been okay thinking he was mad about the article. Finding out he was mad at her directly really hurt her feelings. The plan still is she is returning this weekend to try one more time.

In the meanwhile, I finally broke my stand. Last Friday was 7 weeks of no contact (except some minor pings/dings). I finally sent him that letter (hard regular mail) I have never sent in all the times he's left. The only other time I ever sent him a letter was email, on Christmas, and that's because it was a crisis. I figured since it had been a week from sending the dopamine article, he had had time to think about it and might be in a different frame of mind. Sending a letter before that would have been pointless. I chewed him a little bit, but not as much as I wanted. I then told him how much I loved him and was worried about him and then asked him to think about coming home. If he was sitting up there thinking he had burned all his bridges, I just let him know he had options. Cutting to the chase, I sent it Friday, he got it yesterday (Mon). He did not call nor respond. I didn't really think he would, too proud, etc, but it was worth a shot. We'll see what his sister says after coming back next weekend. Will he go to the doctor ... yes or no?

Lastly, and this one sux. That woman I've been complaining about that I wrote in January to tell her to stop contacting my man, didn't read it for 2 months. When she wrote in March, she acted all offended I had written her. Because she had me over a barrel, I apologized and tried to smooth it over. The last thing I wanted her to do was tell my DDJ. There's already so much going on and I told her that. At the end I asked her to keep it confidential, but that if she did not feel comfortable with that, just let me know, so I would be prepared. In 20 days, she never replied nor did she write him anymore.

Yesterday, I logged on to his mail account and she had written him. She won't write at myspace anymore, since I informed her I run the page. She thinks writing him at yahoo is somehow secret. I set that account up too, so she is just being ridiculous in her pursuit of him. She claims she only wants to be friends, but I've never seen a married woman put SO MUCH effort into connecting with someone she hasn't seen since 3rd FREAKIN GRADE and has been asked on 2 occasions to BUTT OUT! Anyway, not only did she tell on me, but she made outrageous statements that weren't even true. It was ONE thing to tell him I had written her. She could have even forwarded my mail. I have nothing to really hide. I just didn't want to upset him further in light of our situation. At the time I wrote her initially, we were together and he was HERE! I had every right to question her intentions. He would do the same thing if the tables were turned (and has)! How was I supposed to know she would wait 2 months to read it!

Anyway, she wasn't even mature about it. It was so high school the way she ranted on, as if I had stalked her, persecuted her, and burned her at the stake. That is ALL CRAP. Anyway, (yes, I know it was wrong), I DELETED IT. It took ALL my willpower NOT to write back from his account and say "Got ya!" She would have died cuz she thinks that mail is private! HAHA! But I restrained myself. I've had visions of calling her husband though. HA! Anyway, last night I decided I would just come clean with him about what I did. I had always meant to tell him anyway, cuz I thought he'd almost laugh at my jealousy, he'd think it was cute, but when I went up there last, I didn't spit it out. I meant to tell him the next time, and then we blew up and haven't seen each other in 7 weeks. It all got away. I figured I might as well, even if it upsets him, come clean with it. Far better for him to HEAR IT FROM ME FIRST than to get it from her since she OBVIOUSLY is going to dramatize it all. I've had serious thoughts of blocking her mail too, but she would probably only sign up for another one and mail him again. So....I emailed him and confessed. He read it last night. I saw it "read" in his mail today...and no, he again did not respond. I've done all that I can do now. I just can't believe this woman wants to DO THIS right NOW when I'm a week away from his sister having the doctor talk with him. I want to ring her neck!!

Last note...I found it shocking that after my confession, he still did not change his passwords or delete me. What the hell does that mean? He WANTS ME TO LOOK?? I just told him what I did and I would think he would (1) change his passwords to keep me out of his business if he was so upset about it, and (2) feel bad toward the girl and feel the need to write her and apologize or something. He never wrote her any such thing. So, does he find me funny? Or is he mad? Who the hell knows!

OMG! I'm going crazy! Still........and again..........all over! WHEN DOES IT ALL END!!!!!

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

Bri

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by jasmin » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:39 pm

Hey! Do you think he could have this woman's phone number? Probably not since she has to talk to him on the internet. You're right, this sounds very strange and her intentions obviously aren't so innocent. Maybe you should tell her husband and then ring her neck 8)
I guess he might not have deleted you cause he doesn't want to cut off contact with you but he doesn't know what to say..
Hopefully he won't still be mad at his sister and he'll decide to see someone.

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by chloe09 » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:20 am

Hey Bri, I'm sorry to hear things aren't progressing all that well with your man :(

Give him a little time to think about the letter you sent, he will hopefully read it a few times and something might "click" with him. I know the letter I gave my partner made a huge difference, but everyone's different.

This woman sounds like a pain in the arse to be honest. I would be really tempted to tell her husband too but then do you want to invite that sort of drama into your life, you have enough on your plate as it is. Hmmm, hard to say really.

I REALLY hope his sisters next talk with him is successful and he at least gets some more insight into his illness.

Just a thought about that woman emailing him and him not deleting you from his accounts etc. Do you think perhaps because he is DDJ and is sure (in his mind!) that you're cheating on him, he wants to you to read these emails and for you to think something is or might happen?? As I said, just a thought, I could be wayyy off.

“Are you upset little friend? Have you been lying awake worrying? Well, don't worry...I'm here. The flood waters will recede, the famine will end, the sun will shine tomorrow, and I will always be here to take care of you. -Charlie Brown to Snoopy”

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by Bri » Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:04 am

Thanks for replying! I'm so irked!

JASMIN:

jasmin wrote: Hey! Do you think he could have this woman's phone number? Probably not since she has to talk to him on the internet. You're right, this sounds very strange and her intentions obviously aren't so innocent. Maybe you should tell her husband and then ring her neck 8)


Yes, she gave her number to him a long time ago. From my understanding, he has never called it. I do want to tell her husband, and much more, but I also want to keep things calm until me and the sister finished our goal. That's why I kissed her a** in my March reply letter, so she would keep her mouth shut. However, she's one of those "it's all about me" type. She had 20 days to think about what I told her in my apology letter. Instead of saying, "Wow. I'm obviously in the middle of something I know nothing about, and I DO have my own family, so maybe I'll just stay out of it for now,"......she says, "Wow. Some woman is telling me all this stuff and, well, it doesn't really matter cuz I want to be the center. I want to be heard. Everybody pay attention to me. So what that I might cause a riff between two people romantically involved, and so what this guy might have issues he needs to "talk" to someone about....it's ALL ABOUT ME, so I'll write him, be dramatic, and use a line like "If writing you is a problem, JUST LET ME KNOW. Thanks in advance." <------Notice the manipulation. It says, "I'm really upset, so come after me and make it better or ELSE!" I have to LAUGH because if she knew how much my DDJ LOATHES manipulation of any kind, especially the femine wiling ways type, she would NEVER have written such a thing. I actually did her a favor deleting her letter! HAHA! Saved her from getting her a** chewed by HIM! HAHAHA!

Wow. I didn't mean to write so much. Guess I'm really ticked off! HAHA!

jasmin wrote: I guess he might not have deleted you cause he doesn't want to cut off contact with you but he doesn't know what to say..
Hopefully he won't still be mad at his sister and he'll decide to see someone.


Maybe. Maybe not. But BAD NEWS with the sister! She calls me Friday night and tells me her husband has to help his dad move over weekend! I'm LIKE WHAAAATTT! I've waited SO LONG for the day she goes up there and talks to him....and now she's telling me the "day of" that she can't! I about dieeeeed! So we have ANOTHER FREAKIN' week to wait. I'll be dead by then.

CHLOE:

chloe wrote: Just a thought about that woman emailing him and him not deleting you from his accounts etc. Do you think perhaps because he is DDJ and is sure (in his mind!) that you're cheating on him, he wants to you to read these emails and for you to think something is or might happen?? As I said, just a thought, I could be wayyy off.


No. You're not off really. I think he enjoys knowing I'm looking at his stuff. I think he wants me to be jealous like he's felt....but I also think what jasmine said too. It's one of the last ties....hard to cut.

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

Bri

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by jasmin » Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:47 am

Bri, it does sound like she's trying to manipulate him! I wonder what she wants with your man if she's got a family of her own. Her poor husband... Hopefully he'll find out soon enough.

It must be so frustrating that his sis can't talk to him this weeked :?It really sucks. A week will go by quickly, though.

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by Bri » Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:35 am

Here we go again.....when does it end?

Went to my DDJ' s sister's last night. She just hung up the phone with the sister-in-law (married to her other brother) that my DDJ is staying with. He's been there a month because he snapped on his ex-step father, who has been living as a "roommate" with his mom, so he went next door to his brother's. Things have been tense there too because that brother and wife are having problems and their teenage daughter has some psychological issues as well. Sunday, the sister-in-law and her teenage daughter were fighting and my DDJ got in the middle of it. He ended up snapping on the teenage daughter, who then acted out in a harmful way. My DDJ's brother, who up to this point has been enabling my DDJ, finally told him he needed to take a break, so my DDJ went back to the mom's next door. Now he's stuck with the ex-step dad again.

It appears his options are shrinking as far as places to go. I don't know if this is good or bad. I think good because it will force him to "do" something about his situation, but bad because he's the type that might just disappear. Whether into the woods like Grizzly Adams or out into the world in general, I don't know, but this is one of my biggest fears. It scares me to death to think he might disappear, but he his just stubborn enough, and then none of us would know what is going on with him.

The sister was really upset and kept saying, "I just need to get up there." I said, "Well, I hate to sound like a b*tch here, but I've been saying FOR WEEKS that YOU need to go up there! That time is of the essence, that we can't wait because his illness is getting worse,  that NO ONE is in his face about this because they are all up there tiptoeing, you NEED TO GO, etc etc etc!" She looked at me and nodded. I told her my fear is he's going to eventually lose the bit of clarity or awareness something is wrong if this goes on much longer...that's why I feel it is so important she hurry. I think she realizes that now in light of what happened Sunday.

The bad news (god, can there be more?) is she ended up calling him since he was at the mom's again. She got him on the line and they talked about him taking her fishing this weekend. After some time, she asked him, "Have you talked to Bri at all?" He says, "No. But she writes me letters." The sister says, "Oh yeah?" And he says, "Yeah. She's psycho because she thinks something is wrong with me. She think I need medication." The sister just said, "Oh." After they hung up she told me, "I wasn't about to tell him it wasn't true!" HAHA! I said, "Well, he just killed two birds with one stone." She says, "How so?" I said, "Well, he knows we talk. He knows you'll probably tell me what he says. He's telling ME (a message to me through you) that he has read both my letters and they don't mean A THING! AND....at the same time, he's telling YOU, 'Hey sis, in case you want to talk about this subject when you come up this weekend, I'm already letting you know where I stand on this issue.'" She goes, "You're probably right!" I said, "I KNOW I AM!" So, there it is....I think he's trying to tell us his answer already.

In the meanwhile, I've come to the place of acceptance somewhat. I think I'm getting a hold on it (I've been without him the longest ever to date). Hope still holds me back from letting go completely, but in time I will lose that too and then it will be done.

Last edited by Bri on Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by jasmin » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:23 am

(((((((((((Bri))))))))))) People can say things when they feel pressured or angry and then reconsider. And, who knows, even if he doesn't get help right away he might still have to if people stop enabling him. It's so sad that almost all his family ignores his condition. You will get through this no matter what, Bri, because you've already survived a lot of stuff and it's not like any one is dead, things can still change for the better.

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by peace2u » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:22 pm

Hi Bri, please don't take this wrong, but you should not post personal information about other people if you do not do it totally anonymously. Your picture identifies you to people in your neck of the woods, and by extension those you write about.

Last edited by peace2u on Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by Bri » Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:19 pm

peace2u

No problem! No one but a couple of close friends even knows my DDJ has DDJ and the teenage girl I referenced lives 100 miles from here, but just in case I edited my post. If you edit yours too, we will be back on track! YAY!

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

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by jasmin » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:27 pm

Hey, Bri, I hope you're feeling ok.

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by Breaking Point » Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:55 pm

Hi Bri! You seem so strong, but you're dying inside...I know! Where are you? I'd love to go for a big fat cocktail with you and we could cry on each others shoulder! It sounds to me Bri, you should think about letting go soon...as I have to. You are being consumed by this, and you sound like far too good a person for that to happen. If he's as stubborn as you say he is...there won't be any change...it will only be worse! Have you ever told him about this forum...When I got mine to read a couple of the stories it did help somewhat. Whaddaya think?

Chin up!

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by Bri » Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:48 pm

Thanks guys for caring!

Breaking Point: I think him reading this board might have been helpful BEFORE "our" story was on here. If he read it now, he would be mad. Not because I'm discussing our relationship, but because he would say it wasn't TRUE. That what I'm saying about him isn't TRUE! This is the problem.

Well, I'm in the last hours of this Holding My Breath moment! His sister will be home any time now with the news we've all been waiting for. Will he or won't he go to the doctor?? It's like waiting for the jury to decide if you're "guilty" or "not guilty", or the doctor to tell you if you're going to live or not. I want to believe it will be okay, but something tells me it isn't. He IS stubborn. People have said, "Well, Bri, he might just need to hit rock bottom before he'll get help." And I say, "HE IS! He's lost everything and is sitting on a couch in the country. This is a man who's owned a business, headed up public activities, kept up with a demanding social life, had his own home, etc. And now? He has nothing. I don't see how much further to the bottom he can go." This SHOULD mean he's ready to get help, except I don't think he is.

Going crazy here...............

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

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by jasmin » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:47 pm

((((((((((((((Bri)))))))))))))) I hope his sister has good news.

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by faithful » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:35 pm

This "hitting rock bottom before he gets help" thinking is taking a page from AA type stuff - people with problems, but who still have the capacities for logical thought and knowing reality from fantasy. A person with DD, by definition, has no such capacities. He/she will interpret losing everything, and anything else that happens to them, as further proof of whatever their delusion is.

Some people with DD do get in treatment, and, more importantly, stay in treatment, but from what I've seen those people generally have experienced forced hospitalizations. So staying in treatment is, at least in part, a reaction to not wanting to be locked up, not necessarily from any great insight into their illness.

I don't mean to say there is no hope, there is always hope. But "hitting rock bottom" leading to a person with DD then having the insight to seek treatment seems more like magical thinking to me.

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by peace2u » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:13 pm

Agree fully with faithful.

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by qwerty » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:37 pm

agree. Instead of "hitting rock bottom", you should think "jailed or committed".

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by pilpos » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:01 pm

I agree also. My husband always said he does not want to loose his family or grandkids yet he was the one that left and has no contact. If loosing the life you know, the person you love, your kids, house, etc isn't enough to let them know they are sick I don't know what is and most of the time it is their doing, their leaving, their choice. I just don't understand it. I don't get it.

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by princessalu » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:02 pm

They will never see that they are wrong. I know that after I leave he will blame me for leaving, and will also say that I left with someone else. My father-in-law told everyone who would listen even after being divorced for 30 years that his ex-wife was a w****, and that he wasn't sure that all the children were his. He lived a very lonely life, and died all alone, and he never stopped blaming his wife.

 

by Bri » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:37 pm

Okay, the sister stayed another day, so I didn't find out until last night. However...this is like the dud firecracker. All the build up and then nothing but fizzle. In a nutshell....he does not want to take meds, but he wants to see me. He says to have me come up.

The sister spent 2 days trying to talk to him. She said it was like "chipping at ice" trying to get him to respond or say anything. The GOOD NEWS was: he's not mad at her, he's not mad at me, he never tried to argue there was "nothing" wrong with him, he thought the stuff I've been sending him the mail was funny (I always try and make him laugh and wonder if it's even working, so at least I know it is), the other brother up there and his wife are now BOTH totally on board (they have even read the medical info and are taking it to their dr in an attempt to still try and get my DDJ to go), and last, my DDJ is getting very bored and tired of his situation, so maybe he'll do something finally?? The BAD NEWS was: he will not take a job - even a local one (it's like he's paranoid of the public, not out of laziness), he won't deny something is wrong with him, he just won't take meds. The one thing the sister said he really argued with her about was he did not want to take meds.

What's SO DAMN frustrating about DD is that IT ALWAYS WINS. It's always one step ahead no matter how crafty you are. Once again, I was sure this was "either/or"...that I would have a bottom line answer. He would not take meds and is done with me...or...he will try the dr and try to work things out with me. I didn't think he would say "no" to the meds, but still want to see me!!! All we have done is gone RIGHT BACK TO SQUARE ONE! I could just SCREAM!

In responding to everyone's posts:

faithful wrote: He/she will interpret losing everything, and anything else that happens to them, as further proof of whatever their delusion is.


How right you are!

peace2u wrote: Agree fully with faithful.


You are right too!

qwerty wrote: Instead of "hitting rock bottom", you should think "jailed or committed".


EXACTLY!

pilpos wrote: If loosing the life you know, the person you love, your kids, house, etc isn't enough to let them know they are sick I don't know what is


Yeah, I'd think losing a wife and 3 girlfriends in the last 10 years would be PROOF "something" was wrong. And I've even said to him, "Aren't you tired of starting over?" DD is cruel because it causes their eyes/ears to tell them something different than what their heart tells them. Then they are forced to make a choice between them. Unfortunately, the DD usually wins.

princessalu wrote: He lived a very lonely life, and died all alone, and he never stopped blaming his wife.


This is kind of what happened to my DDJ's father. He never got well, blamed his 2 wives, alienated his kids, and died before he fixed any of it. Very sad.......

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

Bri

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by jasmin » Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:22 pm

Bri, at least he wants to talk to you. Maybe part of him can feel that something is wrong but taking meds makes him think that he lets the people who are after him, or whatever, win. Like, maybe he thinks the meds are mind control or something like that.

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by faithful » Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:40 pm

"at least he still wants to talk to you" ????? Is that supposed to be a good thing?

"Most things break, including hearts. The lessons in life lead not to wisdom, but to scar tissue and callus." - Wallace Stegner

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by jasmin » Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:45 am

Well, she listed the fact that he's not mad at her as good news..

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by jasmin » Fri May 22, 2009 8:46 pm

Bri, you haven't posted in a while. Are you ok?

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by Bri » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:50 pm

I don't have time to say everything, but in a nutshell...

(1) My DDJ came back home, did okay for awhile. He seemed to accept the medical information I had sent him while he was in the country. However, within 2 weeks home, he started hearing voices and seeing men out the windows again. It has escalated horribly this past 2 weeks, and he now has a "new" theory as to why he can't "catch" them. They are ON THE ROOF. They put bugs and cams down the vents. I just want to cry my eyes out to see him suffer so much. And, of course, he no longer "accepts" the medical explanation. His attitude toward me is diminshing, and he is verbally bashing me 24/7 for 2 weeks now. I am exhausted.

(2) In the midst of ALL THIS...my son is getting married Saturday!! Oh, yes (can you imagine the drama this is causing my DDJ?) I haven't seen my mother in 3 years, who gives me great anxiety, and she has been in town since last week for this wedding. She has been to my house twice. I have had showers, parties, shopping, and many other details to attend to - ALL WHILE MY DDJ IS FLIPPING OUT ON ME. I still have the rehearsal dinner Friday, and the wedding and reception on Saturday. My DDJ told me this morning he has decided to leave me (again) and I deserve it because I'm protecting all these people in the conspiracy (plus sleeping with them all). I hope to talk him out of it tonight, but he may not even be there when I get home.

I'm very sad, very tired, very overwhelmed......

Thanks ALL OF YOU FOR BEING HERE FOR ME!

I don't THINK I'm GOING TO SURVIVE!

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

Bri

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by jasmin » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:17 pm

Bri, you WILL survive! How is his sister? Can she try to talk some sense into him too? I think reaching out to a good friend who can maybe help you with some of this stuff, like planning or being there when you have to see your mother, might be good. In fact, you can come here and vent right after something triggering has happened or after you've had to see your mother, because it helps to get it off your chest right away.

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by hopefull » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:35 pm

Hi Bri,

i'm so sorry for what you're going through.

i've read a lot of your posts and i so can relate to so much of your story.

i recently went through what you're now going through, but on a smaller scale.
my son graduated from HS on 5/22. we had my mom, family, and friends come in from out of town.
my husband has stopped his medication and it was majorly stressful to keep on keeping on while he was doing his delusional dance.
(he pipes it down when other people are around. interesting.... unfortunately not always when my son is here; screaming at me while son was home "as soon as his graduation is over you're out of here, i'm done with your lies, blahblahblah")

yesterday i received in the mail (friend's mail actually) three books that i heard about on this forum: I'm Not Sick, I Don't Need Help; When Someone You Love has a Mental Illness; and Full Catastrophe Living. obviously I haven't read them all yet but, since I was home alone last night I had a chance to browse through. i recommend them all!

From I'm Not Sick I've already learned a lot. I'm not trying to tell you what's what or your business. but you're not going to talk him out of it. not if he has dd. it ain't gonna happen. but the author of I'm Not Sick gives a lot of good advise as the When Someone You Love author does. according to them it's not even a good idea to try and talk them out of it.

Rebecca Woolis, author of When Someone You Love... has "quick reference guides" for various situations. because i can feel your pain I'm going to relate her quick reference guide to "responding to delusions" here:

"Do not question or discuss the details of delusional statements in any depth. Do not try to convince or argue people out of a delusion. It won't work.
Do not tell people that what they are saying is crazy, delusional, or untrue-unless that is specifically asked of you. Even then, do so with caution.
If your relative is calm, listen neutrally, calmly, and respectfully. Then do any or all of the following:

1. Respond to any nondelusional remarks that have been made.
2. Lead the conversation away from the delusional content.
3. Explicitly, but nonjudgmentally, express you desire to change the subject.

If your relative insists on your making a comment about the delusional material, you can:

1. Say you don't know or hedge.
2. Acknowledge the person's reality and, being as respectful of his or her opinion are you are of your own, explain that there is an honest difference of opinion or perception between you.

If strong feelings accompany the delusions, you can:

1. Acknowledge or address the emotions (fear, anger, anxiety, sadness) without commenting on the delusion.
2. Offer assistance in coping with the feelings-for example, you can ask, "What can you or I do to help you feel more safe?" "

Bri, believe me when I tell you I know how you feel. this is the hardest thing i never could have imagined having to go through. i know that some of the suggestions above may not relate because of the j part of the ddj; but before i even had the book, when my guy was doing the dd (delusional dance) it was much better for him and for me actually if i didn't try to address the actual delusion.

do you see a therapist? i do and i don't think i'd still be standing if i wasn't. i highly recommend it.

you are not alone. you are loved. you will survive. there is NO alternative.

peace and love to you and your family,
hope full

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by Bri » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:21 am

Thanks Jasmin and Hopefull for responding. Hopefull....that was VERY good information. I do try not to engage my DDJ in conversations about his delusions, but I admit I take the bait at times. He is relentless and, if I ignore his statements, it will keep escalating until he gets a response from me. I end up debating him about the logicalness or reasonableness of his belief. I will show him concrete proof to the contrary of his statements and all it does is make him madder. I've never won a single debate trying to "convince" him. As you say, it is absolutely best to not discuss the delusions if you can help it.

So on with my story I guess....

I got home yesterday and he was gone. I can't decide if I'm happy or mad. On one hand, I feel him leaving is good because it takes the pressure off of me for this 2 day rehearsal/wedding/reception. I was afraid he would monitor my every move, be suspicious of every male in attendance, and go on a delusional rant in the middle of it all. I would just die if he ruined my son's wedding. On the other hand, I'm VERY ANGRY because (as I told him)..."EVERY DAY IS ALWAYS ABOUT YOU. This is the ONE time I have asked you to put your opinions/feelings on hold, no matter what you think, and bear through the next few days!" I also said, "You hear voices EVERY day! What's 3 more?" However, when I looked at him and saw his suffering, then thought about my son, I realized I would have to put my feelings aside and do what was best. I ended up telling him, "If you need to leave....leave. I will handle this by myself." I didn't throw a big fit or use the wedding as a guilt trip though it was tempting. He took his clothes, but left some tools, so I guess he isn't finished for good, as he's often said when he's left. It leaves the door open.

However.....this "leaving the door open" is something I want to comment on. Last time we were apart, I was determined to see it through because I wanted to get the medical information in front of him. I finally did that and he acknowledges now at times that he may be sick. We've come a long way...but there is nothing more I can do now. When he was here this time (and now that he's been educated in DDJ), I tried (and did) direct our conversations toward the doctor (instead of all about delusions). Sometimes, he said, "Yes, I know," and sometimes he said, "I'm not sick and I'll never believe it." But he's now left again (the 7th time)? I'm feeling very much like it's time for me to do something different. Maybe I need to say to him I cannot be with you unless you go to the doctor?? I know if I give him this ultimatum, he will likely be gone forever. I hate to risk that, but we cannot keep living like this, only to go through the same cycle over and over. This tactic, of course, is easier said than done. We don't stay because this is fun, we stay because we love them. I hate to lose someone I love, but I can't live like this forever either. It's like picking between being shot or hung. In the end, they both kill you, but you get to choose how you want to suffer in the meanwhile.

Last note...the last time my DDJ was here, he called the police twice. They didn't take him too seriously. This time when he was here, he wanted to know "why" they didn't. I told him that to say there's a prowler or stalker is one thing...but to tell the police there are people with electronic devices rigged up in basements, cross communicating sounds a little whacko, and that he can't blame them for thinking he's loopy. Two Mondays ago, he wanted to call the police because he was tired of the men talking in the windows. I told him he was going to end up going to jail himself if he kept calling them without proof. He needed evidence before he called them again (like a pic). I have a camera that sits on my desk EVERY DAY. I've told him over and over to get a picture of these men. I mean, if they're out there ALL THE TIME, he should be able to get a pic. It's interesting to note, he's never once picked up that camera (I have another note on the quirkiness of DD I will state after this story is told). Anyway, Wednesday was the night he concluded the reason he can't "catch" these men is because they are on the roof. At around 8 am Thurday, after having been up all night looking out windows, he called the police (yes, he did). He was out there for some time, and when he came back in, he was melancholy. He basically said the police didn't believe him. I said, "Well, what did you tell them?" He looked at me funny. I said, "Oh, tell me you DIDN'T tell them that you thought people were on the roof?" And he said, "Well, YES I DID!" I just fell on the bed in exhaustion. I tried telling him again that HE CANNOT tell them things like that....as it is NOT NORMAL. He got really depressed and said, "Well, if you are right, and I am really sick, then I don't want to live. I can't live like this. I can't take it anymore." I told him, "Don't talk like that!" As humbled as he was in that moment, 5 hours later, he was right back on his rant again.

The "other" quirkiness....My DDJ has told me thousands of times he's seen these men in our windows, yet he cannot give me a clear description. He also changes who he thinks the person or persons is/are almost daily. In our long talk Monday night, I pointed this out. I said, "You say these people have been in the windows every night, yet you cannot tell me their exact height, hair and eye color, age, etc. You change who you think it is every day, which tells me something. It tells me that you have NEVER ACTUALLY SEEN THESE PEOPLE or you would be able to describe them exactly." This just blew his mind. He fumbled for one of his famous comebacks, tried to change the direction of the conversation, as well as belting out a whole new slew of accusations to distract me. I wouldn't let him off the hook. I said, "There is a camera that sits there every day, yet you CANNOT get a picture. Don't you find this strange?" He just glared at me.

I find the camera thing VERY telling in that there is a part of the DDJ that KNOWS he/she is faulty. You would think as ADAMANT as they are in their wild accusations that they would BE DYING to PROVE THEMSELVES RIGHT...yet...when an opportunity arises for them to GET PROOF (i.e. camera), they craftily avoid it. The lack of description thing really messed him up because he's SHOUTED at the rooftops his convictions they are out there BECAUSE HE'S SEEN THEM and nobody is going to tell him different, yet he also loves to go down the list of potential suspects (which include all the neighbors, all my exes, and even strangers). However, the two options can't be true at the same time. You've EITHER seen them with your own 2 eyes (which he claims) or you haven't and are guessing who they are (going down the list). When I confronted him with his OWN conflict, he was floored.

Okay...I'm done for now.....aren't you glad? ha!

My best wishes go out to all of you.....

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

Bri

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by leavingthedarkness » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:54 am

Bri, you never cease to amaze me how clever and logical you are. I wish I could reason like that. However, it does not matter how logical our answer are, does it? NOTHING will change their mind. Everytime I look back at the times that I argued, explained, logiced with my husband why his theory of me being a promiscuous woman did not make any sense, I have this image of me talking to a wall. (Now this actually starts to amuse me) Nothing I said was absorted, comprehended, or received. Someone took my husband's soul and made him into rocks.

What are you going to do?

Re: Just Tears....

by qwerty » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:13 pm

I wouldn't discourage him from calling the police. The more obvious it becomes to them that he is sick, the more likely he will get committed and be forced (in his mind) to get treatment. My wife only started taking medicine (and stayed on it for a while) after she was hospitalized a couple times. You posit that part of a DD person's mind knows they are "faulty", so they hesitate to gather proof of their delusions. That part may also recognize the need to take medicine, but they need to think it is being forced upon them with no option, so they don't have to admit they are sick. I remember my wife telling me in the hospital numerous times that they weren't going to let her leave unless she took medicine. She was really distraught and extremely bitter about this. However, in reality, as far as I could tell, the doctors never said this to her. The only thing that I ever heard them tell her in my presence was that nobody could force her to take medicine or stay against her will (which is actually the law here).

Hope you can forget about this for a few days & enjoy the wedding.

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by Bri » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:38 am

qwerty

I got a call today from the police following up on my DDJ's June 2 call to them. I found this quite strange. Since when do police give "follow up" calls? Anyway, I was already going to reply to you that, yes, I shouldn't discourage him from calling the police, as it may be a way for him to get help. However, in the moment, I had only thought about them taking him to jail for abusing 911...which would mean bail money, etc. I didn't think fast enough about the "long term" outcome that might be beneficial. I want to relay the conversation I had with the police, as I think it reinforces your (our) point.

At first, I panicked because I thought "OMG! If my DDJ was here, he would go beserk they called here. He would believe we were in conspiracy and NOTHING would change his mind." I wanted to hang up on the guy (haha!) I had to check myself that my DDJ is 100 miles away right now and when would I EVER GET THIS KIND OF OPPORTUNITY AGAIN? So, after the general b.s. of "we're following up", I wondered if they (the police) would reveal any information to me (as me and my DDJ are not married, etc).

I first asked, "Can what I say to you remain confidential, or can you not do that in your position?"
The officer said, "Sure. I can."
I said, "Is is possible for you tell me your assessment of _____ ?"
"Well, it was very clear to us that _____ is unstable."
I said, "Oh? In what way? Did he tell you why he called?"
"Oh, yeah. The prowlers, people at the windows."
"Did he tell you they were on the roof?"
The officer replied, "Sure did."
He then went on to tell me that when he got the call, he brought along a CTI? CPI? Some kind of 3 letter crap.
I asked, "What is that?"
"Someone who specializes in people who are disturbed."

In my mind, a lightbulb went off because I thought, "How would the officer know to bring a specialist, unless my DDJ has already been pegged as "disturbed" in their database?" I didn't say it, but I thought it.

He then said, "I let him handle _______ ."
"May I ask what they talked about?"
"Well, ______ told him all about the men on the roof and my partner pointed out to him that there were several neighbors out in their yards. (This was early morning). He asked my DDJ, 'Don't you think if this were true, one of the neighbors would have seen it too?'"
I said, "OMG, what did _______ say?"
"He admitted that they would likely have seen them."
I said, "Wow! He admitted that?"
The officer said, "Yes, and then my partner asked him did he think it was possible he had mental problems and had he considered going to the doctor."
I said, "NO, HE DIDN'T!"
The officer replied, "Yup, that's his job."
"What did ____ say to THAT?"
"He said, 'Yeah, it was possible and he would look in to it."

I was FLOORED. My DDJ RARELY ADMITS TO OUTSIDERS THAT HE HAS ANY KIND OF PROBLEM. We talked awhile longer and I explained that my man has a delusional disorder...that me and his family have spent the last year and half trying to figure it out, that he doesn't want to go to the doctor, and we are at our wits end as to helping him. I asked what would happen if my DDJ KEPT calling them. Would they take him in for the 96 hour evaluation? He told me that unless my DDJ showed he would harm himself or someone else, they would not be able to take him. I did explain that DD behavior resembles drug abuse due to the dopamine spike, but I assured him that my DDJ was NOT ON DRUGS just in case there was suspicion of that. He did mention there were people that would come to your home if someone would not go to the doctor and I asked him for this information. I also told him he could NEVER NEVER call this house again, so I would CALL HIM to get the info later in the week. He assured me he would not call again.

My mind has been reeling all day over this. It's not complicated, but strange. I wonder how far back they have had my DDJ tagged as "disturbed"? Since his calls from this residence? Since BEFORE he even met me? I'm very curious though the answer doesn't change the current situation. I also, strangely, felt a kind of relief. That a total stranger, having no bias, conversed with my DDJ and within minutes determined him to unstable (even TOLD HIM SO). No wonder my DDJ came back in the house that morning with such a "defeated" attitude. HE KNEW that I had been NO WHERE AROUND nor had ANY connections to these people, yet they told him he was unstable. It had to be a smack in the face....yet ONE POINT for ME! Maybe, just maybe, I'm NOT lying to him. See, I told him, his sister told him, his brother told him, and now the police have told him. None of these people have a reason to try and trick him (only me), so why are they all agreeing? In one of our conversations while he was still here (yes, another one of my challenges) I asked him FIRST..."Do you believe your sister would do anything to harm you?" He says, "No." I say, "Do you think she would do anything to trick you?" He says, "NO!" I say, "Then why would you think she was lying to you when she told you that you were ill? I KNOW you think I'M LYING...but I'm asking you ABOUT YOUR SISTER! If you believe HER and I'm saying the SAME THING, then wouldn't it mean I'm telling you the truth as well?" He growled at me. HA!

Anyway.....thanks for listening.......

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

Bri

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by qwerty » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:22 pm

Bri wrote: He did mention there were people that would come to your home if someone would not go to the doctor and I asked him for this information.


You should really consider pursuing this. Contact these people & see if they will work with you. If they will, ask them before they visit your man if they will say that the police requested them, so he doesn't blame you.

good luck.

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by peytonmanning18 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:47 pm

qwerty wrote:

Bri wrote:He did mention there were people that would come to your home if someone would not go to the doctor and I asked him for this information.



You should really consider pursuing this. Contact these people & see if they will work with you. If they will, ask them before they visit your man if they will say that the police requested them, so he doesn't blame you.

good luck.


Yeah, really. And when you find out about it let US know so we can find out if there is anyone like that where we live!

Bri I kind of made the same mistake you did awhile back, my wife wanted me to help her to file a police report about the imagined persecution and I practically talked her out of it mostly because I didn't want her to embarass herself.

Afterwards I realized I probably should have helped her, in case the police ever do end up interacting with her when she is delusional it would be nice if they had a heads-up before a crisis is reached. It would probably help avoid a situation potentially getting out of hand.

peytonmanning18

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by Tara » Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:18 pm

Bri,

fact that police figured out what might be going on doesn't surprise me at all - I think they are seeing psychotic people on the daily basis (so much for the supposed extreme rarity of DD) and they can spot the problem very quickly. They had similar reaction in my husband's case, too, not that it helped that much in the long term

I think the 3 letter acronym was CRT (Crisis Response Team) or something along those lines. Some police departments do have them (although not the two we had contact with) and they are supposed to have additional expertise in mental health issues, sometimes they are mental health professionals and sometimes police officers with extra training.

My advice would be to pursue this and try to get him into treatment as quickly as possible, while he didn't have the time to incorporate this into his delusional system. See, given the time, it is likely that you will lose this current edge and he will simply add the police to the "them" list. I posted about this at the time my husband got in contact with police, couple of years ago. First he went to report some of his "problems" to the local office of a federal agency. After 10 minutes or so, they pointed out that he might want to visit the nearby university hospital, just to check whether his memories are real or not. They apparently still had to take notes and file a report - you might do internet search for "zero files" for rather interesting SF Chronicle article about interaction between law enforcement and paranoid people. Then, couple of months later, he decided to confront a person he thought knows something and was "planted". The person quickly realized something is off and called the local police to do welfare check and evaluate him for involuntary commitment. They came, couldn't really do anything, they realized he was delusional but obviously did not fulfill involuntary commitment criteria by wide margin. The main point being that after rather short time, week or two, he started rehashing and tweaking his experience and he came to conclusion that those were not real police officers, their uniforms were "strange". Even going to the police department to check whether they were called that day and get the copy of the report did not help whatsoever. He was simply amazed that whoever is persecuting him was able to get there and manipulate people and documentation so quickly and efficiently...

peyton,

this will leave paper or electronic trail, but I think you could notify your local police department that your wife has mental health issues and get your address flagged accordingly. In the case of 911 call they should be able to cross-reference this - I know that our address is now permanently tagged as previous location of 5150 (California involuntary commitment code) call.

Tara

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by Bri » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:15 pm

Thanks for the input you guys!

peytonmanning18 wrote: Yeah, really. And when you find out about it let US know so we can find out if there is anyone like that where we live!


I am supposed to call Friday or Saturday. As soon as he tells me, I will post here.

Tara wrote: I think the 3 letter acronym was CRT (Crisis Response Team) or something along those lines. Some police departments do have them (although not the two we had contact with) and they are supposed to have additional expertise in mental health issues, sometimes they are mental health professionals and sometimes police officers with extra training.


Thanks...sounds right. I just couldn't remember what he said. I was so astounded I was even talking to him.

Tara wrote:My advice would be to pursue this and try to get him into treatment as quickly as possible, while he didn't have the time to incorporate this into his delusional system. See, given the time, it is likely that you will lose this current edge and he will simply add the police to the "them" list.


I KNOW YOU'RE RIGHT! He's done this before. I'm also concerned about his sister. Once he realized she and I are friends, he has already started to make comments like "If YOU ALL think you're going to make me think I'm crazy..." OR "I know what YOU GUYS are up to." I think WOW! He would actually turn on his sister? He's trusted her HIS WHOLE LIFE? Coming out of an abusive home, she is the only one he ever really trusted (not any of his other older siblings, who being abused by the father, were, in turn, abusive as well). My DDJ and his sister spent a lot of time together "hiding" from the rest. She was the only one he had nothing to fear from. Is he actually weaving her into his delusions now? Or is he just talking smack? I kind of think that he WON'T REALLY turn on her, but he likes to THROW "you guys" out at me, so he can show me how "he knows all about" what's going on. He never wants to appear that he doesn't "KNOW" he's being tricked or cheated. However, I can't be sure. Only time will tell.

I do want to use this police thing before he weaves it in. Lucky for me, he leaves the area, so right now, it's FAR behind him. He won't dwell on it up there like he would if he were still here. When he wanted to call them this time, it was as if he'd already forgotten what had happened months before when he had called. This showed me he hadn't weaved it in. That's not to say, though, he wouldn't. I think you're right about time being of the essence, however, I can't hope for him to call them again until he comes back and has delusions, which as you know could be MONTHS! In the meantime, I will be looking into those people who come to your home. I'd like to have their name and number handy, as well as have had established contact, so that IN THE MOMENT, I can just CALL .... BEFORE HE CHANGES HIS MIND or, as you say, he has time to weave them into the conspiracy.

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

Bri

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by jasmin » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:21 am

Hey, Bri, sorry for the late reply. Were you able to do anything? I hope you're ok.

 

by Bri » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:59 am

My DDJ had an event down here Sat July 20. Talked to him the Thurs before to "test the waters" because I honestly didn't know if we were broke up or he was just taking his "break" again. It started off okay, but it didn't take long for him to start the "men on the roof" rant. He ended up telling me to stay out of his life. He was DONE, OVER IT (meaning ME). I tried to tease him by saying, "Okay, you're done with me forever, but can you still take me with you on Saturday?" <---haha. He was so funny....he said all sarcastic, "I'm - done - with - you - foreeevveerrr, buttt, you want me to take you with me????" I just started laughing. I said, "YEAH! WHY NOT?" He didn't buy it and continued being mean. At one point, he said, "YOU'RE A CON ARTIST BRI!" In the end, I gave up and just said, "Okay."

On Saturday around 4, he called because he needed something in my garage. I said, "Well, since you're going to be here anyway, can you take me with you?" He said, "No room. I brought my brother with me." He only has 2 seats in his truck and the back seat is filled with stuff. I said, "Oh, never mind then." He then said, "Talk to my sister. I think she's going." And then he handed her the phone. I ASSUMED that meant he didn't care if I went...so me and his sister made arrangements to meet. Long story short, we all went. He was pleasant to me ONCE, then never spoke to me again the entire time we were there. It would have been VERY embarassing if it weren't for the fact that every family member and/or friend that was there KNOWS something is wrong with him. That was the only thing that made me feel better. Knowing they understood. Had I not had other people riding in my car, I would have left. It was hard staying when he was doing what he was doing, but I made the best of it. When it was over, I went to my car and waited for every one else to finish up and come along. I sat there feeling so hurt, and I realized that I WAS TIRED OF BEING HURT. Very tired. Then I thought, "The only answer is to LET GO!" God that is so FINAL! It breaks my heart.

Sunday was awful. I walked around here coming to an understanding that I've been fighting for over a year. There is the ILLNESS, yes, but there is also something else that has happened. In my "unconditional" support, he (as a man and human) has begun to take me for granted. That I will ALWAYS be around, no matter what, so he feels he can treat me any way he wants and it won't matter. I know this is MY FAULT. I've let him do too much and come back with no consequences. He used to make a great effort to "romance" me - to make up for the bad - but these last 2 times he's come back, he has done VERY LITTLE in that area. I even talked to him about it and he seemed to understand what I was saying. I said, "If you want me to be able to handle all the b.s. you put out, I NEED you to give me MORE when you can. In between the episodes. Like YOU USED TO!" He nodded. However, he still didn't put much effort out though HE DID FINALLY finish the tile work before my family came in from out of town for the wedding that he stopped a year and a half ago to punish me. That was nice.....(I guess).

Over the past few days, I've tried to be "broke up". Instead of harboring the idea of his "next" return, I've tried letting go. Not just mentally, but acting it out as well. I've packed up his stuff and am taking it to his sisters this weekend. Her son's graduation is next Tues. Me and my DDJ are supposed to go. If he comes down to attend, I'm NOT GOING. I've decided I can't afford to see him anymore due to the pain it causes me. My health is shot. I moved him from my top friends and changed my status to "single" (something I was always afraid to do because I knew it would set him off). I don't care anymore. I have no more ideas, no more agenda, no more missions for him. HE KNOWS HE'S ILL..he READ the information and agreed it made sense. The truth is ... HE IS NOT GOING TO FIX IT. FINAL ANSWER. I had such a bad day yesterday with anxiety and depression that I FINALLY broke down and made an appointment with a psychiatrist, but it won't happen for 2 weeks as they are overbooked. I fear a nervous breakdown (of which I've had before many years back) and want to head that off before it gets a hold. I put TOO MUCH of myself out there and waited TOO LONG to get help. I hope seeing the doctor will bring some relief. At this point, ANYTHING would help. And, of course, there's always YOU GUYS. I couldn't have made it this far without you. Thanks everyone.

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

Bri

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by Breaking Point » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:30 am

Oh Bri...I so know what you are going through because I am right there myself! I have not yet made an appointment for myself yet, but you have just motivated me to do it...I'm calling for an appointment tomorrow!

Bri wrote:In my "unconditional" support, he (as a man and human) has begun to take me for granted. That I will ALWAYS be around, no matter what, so he feels he can treat me any way he wants and it won't matter. I know this is MY FAULT. I've let him do too much and come back with no consequences.


This is so true, and sometimes I get so tired of blaming the illness! I know he (as a man and human) should be capable of taking some sort of responsibility in all of this! It is getting to the point that my love is beginning to fade, which in the long run is going to make this a helluva lot simpler to leave!

Well...he just got home, walked into the bedroom...glared at me...looked under the bed....hmmmphed....and walked out muttering something! I'm not even going to get up.....Nite nite!

Breaking Point

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by Bri » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:39 am

I've been away for a bit and wish I had good news, but sadly, I don't. It's 3 am and I can't sleep (as usual), so I thought I'd come here and cry on your shoulders (I need ALL of them).

Picking up from my last post, my DDJ's sister's son had his graduation. My DDJ was supposed to come down, so I made a point to NOT go. However, at the hour of....he didn't show. That ticked me off because had we known he wasn't really going, I could have went. When the mom went back up, she took all my DDJ's stuff I had put together back up to him. That's the first time I ever "cleaned out" his things, taking all his "excuses" away to see me. It didn't change a thing. He just went on sitting up there (on the couch with the tv).

His sister felt snubbed by his not showing up. Every time she talked to him on the phone, he was also snubbish. Like he was mad at her for something. I told her to just ASK him what his problem was! She finally did and it wasn't that she and I are friends (which I never thought anyway cuz he would have griped about it), but because he found out she took all that DD medical information up there a few months back and showed it to his mom and their other brother. The sister defended her position, etc. and they worked it out. After that, he seemed better toward her.

Meanwhile, I'm overwhelmed, exhausted, sad, depressed, lonely, anxiety....ALL THAT! I've also been having horrible pains in my hands for years, which in the past year had spread to my arms and shoulders. All this making it impossible for me to work or do chores. I woke up one morning and my arms felt like they were broken. I couldn't move and mentally, I just shut down. I layed there forever not caring about anything. I didn't go to work. I knew I needed to call the dr, but then had no way to get there, as I could not move my arms. I had to toss around how I was going to handle this. The only person I knew that could leave work and take me or would bother to help me was my son. However, I've never allowed my son to see me get to the "nervous breakdown" stage. I always hid that from him when he was growing up. This would be the first time he would see me in this state. I finally decided, he's a grown man, married now, and it was probably time for him to know the truth about my condition. I called him, he came, he took me. I think it scared him a little because I was literally catatonic. I could hear people talking, but I could not really communicate. I had been having tremors for months and they were also acting up quite badly. The whole dr visit is a blur. He gave me Cymbalta (anti-depressant) and Lyrica (for joint/muscle pain). I went home and threw up or 2 days with the Cymbalta. My son called him back and he put me on Paxil and added Xanax to the mix. Of course, my son had to go back to work, etc., so I was on my own. A few days later, I realized in my drugged stupor that I was hungry. I'm not a big eater, and don't really enjoy the whole eating process, but I have low blood sugar, so it matters that I eat (or I get really sick). I called my DDJ's sister and told her I was hungry. I was thinking maybe she would bring me a cheeseburger or something. She came right out and said, "Oh crap!" Apparently, everything was in disarray (which I don't remember) and she said I looked like I hadn't showered in days (and honestly, I don't remember when I last did, as all the days blurred together). She immediately ran me a bath, stuck me in it, had her daughter sit and watch me, so I wouldn't drown, then went to the kitchen and cooked. She fed me, called the pharmacy to make sure my pills were right, got my bed together, and put me in it. She came back every day over the next several days to watch over me. She made me get up and walk a little each day, go on short trips to the store, and cooked me up enough food to last a week, so I could just reach in the fridge and grab something when I needed it. I have no pride left, so it is nothing for me to say that the first night she came to take care of me, I cried and cried. I thought about how NO ONE has EVER come to take care of me like this...not my mother, no man, not friends, no one. It was the nicest thing anyone ever did for me. Over the next 2 weeks, I got better, but I told her that there was NO WAY I would have gotten better this soon had she not come and made me want to try. I did go back to work, but I'm very medicated, so it makes it hard. I've fallen asleep several times at my desk...HAHA! The lesson here is ... DO NOT WAIT UNTIL YOU'RE AT YOUR END TO SEEK DR HELP!

Another thing (and you will all understand how horrifying this would be) is that my DDJ's sister's daughter has this problem telling tall tales. She's a good girl, but she likes drama too. She's 12 after all! Anyway, a month ago when she was up there visiting her gr'ma (my DDJ's mom), my DDJ had yelled at her and she was mad at him. So out of nowhere, she tells him, "I met Bri's ex-husband. Yeah, he comes over all the time!" OH MY GOSH! To make matters worse, she didn't tell us she did this until last week. Of course, her mom got on to her and so did I, but we realized that for the past 3 or 4 weeks, my DDJ has been sitting up there thinking my ex-husband is hanging around my house and I'm dating him. The daughter should have never had said this to him, but she was mad and trying to spite him. She really doesn't understand the whole nature of DD and how devastating her statement was. Her mom, my DDJ's sister, called up there and talked to my DDJ THAT DAY and cleared that all up. He said, "Yeah, I believed it." She explained her daughter has been lying a lot lately and it was NOT TRUE! They chatted quite awhile and I believe she fixed that whole mess. I was glad because OVER OR NOT, I DID NOT WANT HIM SITTING UP THERE HOLDING ON TO SOME UN-TRUTH, SO HE COULD JUSTIFY HIS ENTIRE DELUSIONAL THEORIES!

Lastly, I had it out with another one of my long time friends. I already broke off with the 28 year friendship 8 months ago. This friend I had for 22 years. If you knew what she was saying to me, you would agree I was right in letting her go. That is 2 long time friends I have lost over DD.

As usual, DD sucks....

Last edited by Bri on Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

Bri

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by Tara » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:58 pm

Oh, Bri...

I don't know what to say - take care of yourself and hold onto your DDJ's sister. That's one awesome lady...

Tara

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by Bri » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:16 pm

I haven't been here in more than a year. I wish I could come back and tell you everything worked out great, but you all know better. I've been through a lot since I was here and am too tired to go into details, but the short of it is...we have been off and on this entire time. Once, we didn't speak for 5 months. He also had a major heart attack last February. Thought that was going to "wake him up" to his mortality and finally give him a push toward facing his DD, but that didn't happen. Right now, we are on a fence. He is neither mad/angry at me nor do I see him consistently. He lives in the country, I stay here. He did not set foot in this house for 14 months, then just recently came twice to spend a weekend. We do not discuss our past (i.e. fights, trigger words, bad memories between us) or his disorder AT ALL, and I don't ask him to stay because I know spending too much time with me will push his dopamine up (then pop goes the weasel). The one thing I have done to change myself is taking a stand when necessary. I never wanted to push at him for any reason because it might cause him to blow up, but you can't be a doormat all the time and not be taken for granted. Yes, he started doing that. I don't do it often, but when he jerks me around, I've actually walked out on him. Once was in the country where I had to drive 100 miles home to make my point. He didn't think I had it in me, but he does now...lol I think that helped quite a bit for him to realize he would have to at least show SOME restraint or respect or maybe I really WOULD leave him for good. The way I see it....if he is STILL coming around (as little as it may be), there is still love for me. I love him as much as I ever did, so here we are. I have never been so lonely in a relationship, so why do I hang on? I don't know. I feel compelled to stay until he finally quits for good.

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

Bri

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by faithful » Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:14 am

"if he is STILL coming around (as little as it may be), there is still love for me."
Ah, there is that magical thinking again. You really believe he is capable of love? Really? What makes you think so? Because he shows up? That is a mighty shallow definition of love.

faithful

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by Bri » Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:08 am

Ahhh...there's nothing like the sweet smell of bluntness and cynicism...lol No, really, I hear you, and could even answer all that if I were still manic and hyper. However....the drs put me on meds that calm my ass down and now I have no driving force to jump through all the hoops. Let's just say that if you've been in this long, you know how it works. Either the DDJ finally believes his own story and gives up for good because "we" are so bad, OR, we give up on the DDJ because we can't take anymore. For me and my DDJ to have found a middle ground, a place we can still be together, but not long enough to cause an episode, is huge. Of course, I want more, but for him to still come to the plate after all we've been through means a lot to me. I'm not saying our arrangement is good for everybody cuz I don't think "everybody" can handle it. The question of staying or going is a question we (the partners of DDs) face every day and only the person involved can decide what they can handle. This is just "my" story, where I'm at. And, yes, for a DDJ to still reach out after 3 yrs of believing the worst, I'd say only "love" for me could make him want to still try (shallow definition or not). How long will I do this? Who can know? I've always said that as long as he keeps reaching, I will be here. The day he stops is the day I will too. :mrgreen:

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

Bri

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by jasmin » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:13 pm

Bri, welcome back! So he's reaching out to you again and you welcome it. I'm glad it makes you happy, it's what really matters, isn't it? You have to think about how you want to spend the rest of your life, though.

 

     --------------------

 

5. Delusional Disorder (DD) - Making Sense of It

http://www.psychforums.com:80/delusional-disorder/topic36555.html

by Bri » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:17 am

I decided to post this because people ask these same questions over and over. To make it easier, I cut and paste from other threads I've posted in. Sorry, if you've already read any of this material. This is mostly for newcomers.

WHAT IS DELUSIONAL DISORDER? (DD)

DD is the condition whereby people are chronically paranoid, have false suspicions, even hallucinate (sight, sound, touch, taste, and smell). They are relentless in their beliefs, the delusions are often elaborate and include many people, they're consumed with trying to find "proof" of their beliefs, they deny they have any problem at all, and adamantly avoid treatment.

The symptoms of DD usually manifest around 28 years of age and without intervention are full blown by the time a person is 40 years. The illness is chronic, progressive, and life long. DD will not go away by itself. The only known treatment is medication. There are different themes DD takes on. A person can be exclusively one subtype or a mix of several.

The 5 subtypes of Delusional Disorders are:

1. Erotomanic: delusion that another person, usually of higher status, is in love with the individual.

2. Grandiose: delusion of inflated worth, power, knowledge, identity, or special relationship to a famous person (e.g. Messiah complex).

3. Jealousy: delusion that the individual's sexual partner is unfaithful.

4. Persecutory: delusion that the person (or someone to whom the person is close) is being malevolently treated in some way.

5. Somatic: delusions that the person has some physical defect or general medical condition (e.g. parasites).

Though DD subtypes vary in their theme, they do all have one common thread - irrational thinking. The distinction between rational and irrational thinking is this: rational thinkers are able to extract what is "most likely" in a row of possibilities and then, more importantly, are able to CHANGE THEIR POSITION as new information becomes available. Irrational thinkers cannot discern what is "most likely" in a row of possibilities and, no matter what new information is introduced, they CANNOT change their position. Fact based reality plays NO PART in delusional/irrational thinking.

WHAT CAUSES DD?

There are several known causes of DD. There are organic causes: brain lesions/tumors, strokes, meningitis, epilepsy, brain injury, etc. There are neurological illnesses: Parkinson’s Disease, Huntington’s Chorea, Alzheimer’s Disease, etc. There are psychotic causes: schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder (manic-depressive). And then there is good old fashioned alcohol/drug abuse. If all of these can be ruled out, then you have a stand alone Delusional Disorder (DD). This type of delusional disorder (I believe) is due to genetics and chemical imbalance.

WHAT IS A CHEMICAL IMBALANCE? AND WHAT ROLE DOES DOPAMINE PLAY?

There are over 50 chemicals (known as neurotransmitters) the brain uses to communicate. If any of them are off, it can cause all kinds of health problems. The chemical linked to DD is dopamine. If the brain has too little dopamine, you get ADD/ADHD and Parkinson's. Too much dopamine and you get paranoia all the way up to delusions and hallucinations. Dopamine is the chemical that makes you feel happy. Smokers, lovers, drug users, all get the feeling of euphoria from elevated dopamine. It's a wonderful chemical UNLESS it's faulty. When dopamine levels get too high, paranoia and delusions set in. The brain misinterprets every day signals coming in (light, sound, touch, smell, taste) as sinister messages, causing the DD to put significance on things that have NO significance. A note of interest...the DD, in a state of delusion, mimics the same behavior as the meth addict. Their dopamine levels are at a peak, so they are paranoid, sleepless, hypersensitive to stimulation, and hallucinate.

There is a great article that discusses the DD/dopamine link.

http://www.enotalone.com/article/4114.html

HOW ARE GENETICS INVOLVED?

A predisposition to having DD starts with genetics. One can inherit a faulty gene. In the case of DD, the gene that regulates dopamine is faulty. Though they have not pinpointed the exact gene responsible, and there's still debate about whether genetics take part in one's susceptibility to manifesting the illness, you will find ADD/ADHD, Parkinson's, and DD will often run in same families. It's interesting to note that my DDJ's grandmother had Alzheimer's, his father, he, and 2 brothers have DDJ, and his sister's twins have ADD & ADHD (one has one, one has the other). This is an indicator that there is a genetic link, though the nature of the illness rests on a chemical imbalance of dopamine.

Being predisposed via genetics does not mean a person will manifest the illness. There are triggers that also play a part some people may never experience. The following have all been mentioned: high levels of stress (like in abusive homes); negative role modeling (father projecting suspicious attitude in the home, thereby "teaching" children to have suspicious minds); improper nutrition possibly, especially in the early years, as brain chemicals (called neurotransmitters) are synthesized from the foods we eat. Malnutritioned children do poorly with attention span and in cognitive thinking; drug/alcohol use (any use at all, not to mention ABUSE, can change one's chemistry). Then there are factors no one may even be aware of.

However, not everyone born to a DD will have DD. Out of my DDJ's father's 5 kids, only 3 have DD (2 have DD/Jealousy, and the other has DD/Persecutory mostly with a dash of Jealousy). One other son and the daughter do not have DD at all. This shows either the flawed gene was not passed on to them...OR...the flawed gene was not switched on by the triggers they were exposed to.

UPDATE: As of 2010, researchers are confident ADHD is caused by a gene. It only makes sense (to me) that if ADHD, a condition where there is too little dopamine, has a gene involved, then Delusional Disorders, where there is too much dopamine, could also be genetic.

Here is the link: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162- ... 91704.html

I also found it interesting the ADHD gene is beneficial to nomadic people. Seems to suggest there was a purpose at one time for this gene to operate. In settled peoples, there is no place for the manifestation of ADHD to burn off, so it is perceived as "negative" behavior.

Here is the link: http://psychcentral.com/news/2008/06/17 ... /2468.html

TREATMENT

DD will adamantly avoid treatment. They do not believe anything is wrong with them. Getting them to the doctor is key in getting the right diagnosis, thereby getting the right medication. Provided the DD is not related to an organic, neurological, or psychotic illness (they've been ruled out), then anti-psychotic medicine is likely needed. Older first generation anti-psychotics are pimozide (Orap), haloperidol (Haldol), among others, but are harsher than newer second generation anti-psychotics such as Risperidone, Seroquel, Zyprexa. These medications work by blocking dopamine receptors ("dopamine antagonist").

In the above linked article, Dr. Carver mentions Wellbutrin (known as Zyban for smokers), sold as an anti-depressant, as a possiblity. This type of medicine is known as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor ("DARI"). There is a lot of technical information about DARIs, but we'll try to keep it simple. All DARI's block the "dopamine transporter" from taking any excess dopamine back to the presynaptic cell (brain cell), however, one group of compounds (medications are derived from) then stimulates dopamine production (methamphetamine, phenmetrazine), while another group (bupropion, vanoxerine) suppresses it. Wellbutrin/Zyban is a bupropion.

The newest medication available that block dopamine is Abilify with a very low percentage of side effects.

DOPAMINE PRODUCERS/AGGRAVATORS

Cigarettes, alcohol, drugs (marijuana, meth, cocaine), and sex ALL elevate dopamine. It is why we repeat the behavior because it is "enjoyable". Some increase dopamine levels more than others. Cigarettes, marijuana, and moderate alcohol increase dopamine slight to moderate, while meth/cocaine and sex increase dopamine dramatically.

A note of interest....According to Wikipedia("Dopamine") "Cocaine and amphetamines inhibit the re-uptake of dopamine; however, they influence separate mechanisms of action. Cocaine is a dopamine transporter blocker that competitively inhibits dopamine uptake to increase the lifetime of dopamine and augments an overabundance of dopamine (an increase of up to 150 percent) within the parameters of the dopamine neurotransmitters. Like cocaine, amphetamines increase the concentration of dopamine in the synaptic gap, but by a different mechanism. Amphetamines are similar in structure to dopamine, and so can enter the terminal button of the presynaptic neuron via its dopamine transporters as well as by diffusing through the neural membrane directly. By entering the presynaptic neuron, amphetamines force dopamine molecules out of their storage vesicles and expel them into the synaptic gap by making the dopamine transporters work in reverse."

Obviously, cocaine and methamphetamine use increases dopamine tremendously and must absolutely be avoided by the DD.

HEADACHES

Lastly, not many people mention if their DD gets headaches or not. Mine does and I found it interesting that migraines have been associated with dopamine and serotonin. Dopamine receptors are also involved in regulation of blood flow in the brain. One of the meds used for migraines is the dopamine antagonist Risperidone, also used for DD.

Also, feel free to comment, correct, debate, or otherwise. I'm open to changing this post (or adding to it) as new information becomes available. YAY!

Last edited by Bri on Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:55 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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by Bri » Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:07 am

I didn't realize Dr. Carver mentioned Zyban (a/k/a Wellbutrin) as a dopamine blocker (Page 2 of 6). I knew I had read that Zyban was given to smokers to block dopamine, but I had never been able to cite it in relation to DD. I guess the several times I read his article, I was so focused on other areas, I missed his Zyban comment. Anyway, I edited the original post to include Zyban as a possible med for DD>

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

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by bsc » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:15 pm

An excellant summary!!

Comment:
"Though DD subtypes vary in their theme, they do all have one common thread - irrational thinking. The distinction between rational and irrational thinking is this: rational thinkers are able to extract what is "most likely" in a row of possibilities and then, more importantly, are able to CHANGE THEIR POSITION as new information becomes available. Irrational thinkers cannot discern what is "most likely" in a row of possibilities and, no matter what new information is introduced, they CANNOT change their position. Fact based reality plays NO PART in delusional/irrational thinking."

 

Not trying to be funny, but the above paragraph implies that most religious people and politicians can (should) be included in the DD camp.

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by tpr » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:15 pm

I tried several of the medications listed above for DD and none of them worked. The worst was risperidone. It turned me into a complete zombie. I guess different reactions in different people. I think DD must occur primarily in memory formation/storage. Like the delusion is formed and/or processed/stored in the part of the brain that processes/stores actual real experiences as opposed to hypothetical, fantasy, daydreams etc. It has been my experience that once the delusion is formed it is persistent, fixed, and permanent. The false reality/memory then requires validation. I guess maybe that is the part these medications may help for some, the driving compulsion to engage and find something to support the initial delusion.

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by qwerty » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:41 pm

if you don't mind me asking, what did work for you? How did you become aware that these memories were not real experiences?

thanks

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by tpr » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:51 pm

I became aware something was potentially wrong with me because of the endless repetitiousness of the delusional thought process.

What has worked for me…the best way to explain how I cope with DD is to say that I still have the same delusions but I have faith that what I construe as reality isn’t. For the most part I have quit engaging the delusional reinforcing behaviors, though not always, but when I do falter, I stop myself before going to far. I stop because I feel guilty.

As we are all aware it is very difficult for anyone with DD to arrive at this point because it is ‘reality’ and you’re not ‘crazy’. The therapist, psychiatrist, medication, none of it helped me in the least. Of course that isn’t to say it couldn’t have helped me. I think when assessing how to approach, help, treat someone with DD, that all facets of the person’s personality need to considered in relation to the delusions. What I mean is the person is still the same person, with all of the same fundamental personality traits, only now it is the same person with the delusional reality miscues. So based on inherent personality traits, different people react differently to their delusions. For instance, I would think the most difficult DD personality profile to treat would be self centered/egotistical/alpha because their personality predisposes them to not accept fault and maybe to be more aggressive in their pursuit of the truth, with less regard for the feelings of others, since they have been wronged as they perceive. This isn’t a qualitative judgment, its just that when you are delusional you are not wrong, in fact you have never been more certain that you are right, so if your personality in general is not inclined to accepting fault then it seems to me it would be extremely difficult to overcome that overwhelming reality in your mind. For me, I was as tortured by the ‘harm’ I received as the torment that I rendered ‘in kind’.

tpr

 

 

by luvfrstgrade » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:10 pm

I couldn't have explained it better myself. My ex husband fits the "egotistical, self-centered, self-righteous" profile. He always had to be "right". It was difficult for him to admit he was wrong about anything, and if you challenged him, you had a heavy emotional price to pay. I've never read anyone address the spirituality component or lack thereof that comes with this disorder. The fact that you felt "guilty" shows that you still possessed some degree of empathy for what the other person was going through. Thank you so much for giving us greater understanding.

 

by Bri » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:35 pm

tpr wrote:I think when assessing how to approach, help, treat someone with DD, that all facets of the person’s personality need to considered in relation to the delusions. What I mean is the person is still the same person, with all of the same fundamental personality traits, only now it is the same person with the delusional reality miscues. So based on inherent personality traits, different people react differently to their delusions. For instance, I would think the most difficult DD personality profile to treat would be self centered/egotistical/alpha because their personality predisposes them to not accept fault and maybe to be more aggressive in their pursuit of the truth, with less regard for the feelings of others, since they have been wronged as they perceive. This isn’t a qualitative judgment, its just that when you are delusional you are not wrong, in fact you have never been more certain that you are right, so if your personality in general is not inclined to accepting fault then it seems to me it would be extremely difficult to overcome that overwhelming reality in your mind. For me, I was as tortured by the ‘harm’ I received as the torment that I rendered ‘in kind’.



I have analyzed this aspect of DD many times and believe you are right. My DDJ is very ego centered, was always successful at whatever he attempted, is used to being right, and fiercely independent. I believe his "personality" traits make it EXTRA hard for him to come to terms with his illness because admitting to a delusional illness would EQUAL he was BEEN WRONG about people and theories. The thought of being "wrong" is SO HORRIBLE to him that he would cut off his arm, lose a leg, and set himself on fire before he would admit it. I told his sister that him swallowing his pride and admitting he was wrong would be the equivalent of a man trying to swallow a 7,000 lb whale. It would be impossible. If there was a way my DDJ could seek treatment without it meaning he has been wrong, he would probably go. It is that aspect of his personality that holds him hostage.

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

Bri

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by Bri » Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:57 am

Thanks everyone for your input!

I edited the main post to include Abilify as a new possible dopamine blocker med. And added Dopamine Producers/Aggravators section.

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

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by Breaking Point » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:48 pm

Thanks Bri, great info. Great pic too, by the way! It's so nice to put a face to the voice. Anyway, it's been a roller coaster ride as usual, and I of course had not utlizied the forum as I should have to get me through some pretty rough times. Until the other night, when things seemed to be at their worst, I got online and I wrote a small novel, soaked my keyboard in tears then proceeded to fall into a much needed sleep...only to find when I awoke in the morning my battery on my labtop died along with my unsaved novel. I sure felt alot better...and of course he was alot better that day (yesterday) as well, so it seems we are on another up hill slope of the ride.

Enough of me...I just wanted to throw this out there in here...and tell me if this has happened to anyone else. I have been with my DDJ for 3 years and while there were signs of jealousy in the beginning, it was nothing over the top and very infrequent. It was just over a year into our relationship, he looked me in the face and told me he loved me. I had told him several times by this time and he only would nod, and maybe the odd me too as his response. From that very day forward was when the Jealousy Beast appeared and not subtly either. Once the "I Love You" was released, and he kept repeating it for days, was the beginning of my nightmare. It was the very next day that he said I signalled to someone out the window. I'll never forget thinking, (after first laughing my head off) he has to get more sleep. Wow...if that was the only problem! Anyway it seems that the I Love You triggered some kind of switch in his brain that has no way of turning off. Even the "I Hate You's" and I've had plenty of those since then, don't seem to combat it. So I just wondered if anybody had experienced anything like this with their partner? Anyway, I can't wait to hear! I think I'm going to add my picture to! Thanks again Bri! :D

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by Bri » Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:19 am

Thanks BP for your kind words! Writing seems to help me too. Sorry you lost your book!

Anyway, as far as the rest of your post, I'm going to start a new thread for us, so we can discuss it. Look for "When Did It Start? (DD)"

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

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by Bri » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:57 pm

Wanted to post an UPDATE in the HOW ARE GENETICS INVOLVED? section. There are links to articles on the new studies out about a gene discovery for ADHD.

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

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by kerra » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:28 pm

altho my husband has never been diagnosed dd he shows many textbook symptoms of jealousy, grandiose and persecutory delusions. all male family members do as well. none ever diagnosed. my question is...is it delusional disorder or plain old fashion verbal emotional and sometimes physical abuse? of course he says its neither, nothing wrong with him. its because im a wh*** and trying to lock him up.

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by Bri » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:47 am

So many people ask the same questions when they first come to this forum. Many times, it has been the only source of information on the DD Quints (jealousy, somatic, persecutory, grandoise, and eromatic), or the only place they have found others to talk with, share stories, and/or keep up with the latest medical info regarding this horrible illness. I started this topic to help those who come in "new', helping them understand symptoms, theories of origin, learning DD terminology, etc. Anyone who can add to this thread is greatly appreciated. For those of you who have had to endure the agony DD causes, may peace find you soon....

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

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by jkww1002 » Sat May 21, 2011 6:44 am

HELP!!!!

I have been with my boyfriend for over a year. Love him very much, but it is hard to deal with someone who says he trusts you but over analyzes every thing you say. And I believe, there is a lack of trust but he always talks about it's his curiosity. And that we should be able to talk and if we can't talk it's bc I'm being distrustful. His issue is my past and my past relationships from one night stands to how many relationships I've been in. Says it doesn't bother him, but if there is one inaccuracy in something I've said or he thinks I've said, it's world war 3. Our major fights were when he was drunk and he attacked me verbally. It was awful and something I had never seen from him before. Scared me. Right now, we have only had one episode where he was as nasty as he was before. The issue is, we have had the conversations repeatedly and I am tired of feeling like I am a whore and I am tired of the lack of trust. He overanalyzes everything I talk to him about, and says we should be able to talk. I agree, but then it goes completely out of control. One question becomes 20 and I feel completely lost. I've been cheated on and divorced, because of it. Would never do that to him. And I constantly tell him that I love him. Only want to be with him. He told me he thinks he has Radioactive jealousy disorder. What am I supposed to do with him. I've just recently started to read about this, and it sounds like it won't go away. He talks about wanting to be better, but 4 major fights in less than a month and I am lost. I feel my thoughts are scrambled as evidence with this post. What do I do? Stick with him or cut and run? Afraid I don't know what the right decision is.

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by sal magundi » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:23 pm

thanks very much for this summary, and for the site overall.
i've lived my whole life with a mother who i knew even when i was small had some sort of cognitive issue, which has recently become intolerable (tho' it really was intolerable all along) and it has driven me to find a diagnosis which is certainly DDP. knowing this may help me deal more patiently but her relentless arrogance may not allow that.

 

     --------------------------------->

 

6. DD & Headaches

by Bri » Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:54 am

Since I've known my DDJ, he has constantly popped and cracked his neck. He gets headaches all the time, and I assumed it was his neck causing them. I've come across information several times now that has linked headaches with dopamine and serotonin. Dopamine receptors are involved in regulation of blood flow in the brain. One of the meds used for migraines is the dopamine antagonist Risperidone, also used for DD.

Do any of your DD's suffer headaches?

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

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by Butterfly Faerie » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:40 pm

so many things can cause headache I myself get them a lot, it could be stress, muscle tension, change in the air pressure (which affects me), being allergic to foods, caffeine headaches etc etc etc. I don't think it's because of it strictly being DD .... but just perhaps a combination of things, Anxiety suffers deal with headaches likely because they worry, get stressed out, get tense etc etc... it is likely the same with him ....


Has he ever gone to the doctors?
How often does he get them?

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by peytonmanning18 » Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:16 pm

I get classic migraines myself...aura for 1/2 hour, followed by nausea, followed by the intense, localized headache itself which usually lasts about two hours then slowly subsides. During and after this period I have sensitivity to bright lights and loud noises, then I feel very confused and "muddle-headed" for 12-24 hours afterwards. I have never (as far as I know) been delusional.

My wife who has had off and on episodes of delusions has never been diagnosed with migraines but goes through episodes where she seems to be suffering every symptom I just described above, except the aura. She has sensitivity to bright lights and noise, nausea/vomiting, intense headache, etc.

I suspect she does in fact suffer from migraines (not everyone gets all the classic symptoms) but they have never been diagnosed. She has never seen a doctor for this.

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by chloe09 » Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:59 am

Interesting question Bri! My partner never gets headaches at all, he's very lucky actually. I'm a HUGE headache/migraine sufferer unfortunately, I get them for various reasons, skeletal, hormonal etc.

It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of DD's got a lot of headaches from all the constant thoughts, bad thoughts!!

“Are you upset little friend? Have you been lying awake worrying? Well, don't worry...I'm here. The flood waters will recede, the famine will end, the sun will shine tomorrow, and I will always be here to take care of you. -Charlie Brown to Snoopy”

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by Bri » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:16 am

Thanks for all your responses.

Well, I don't want to put the cart before the horse. I know there are dozens of causes of headaches. I just meant that the info I'm finding talks about dopamine regulating blood flow to the brain and, thus, is one cause (of many). There is constant yawning and tiredness from lack of oxygen, neck tension, and headaches. My DDJ has all these. Just wanted to do a poll on DD headaches. It is another interesting piece of the puzzle to contemplate and curious if it's the exception or the rule with DD. Sounds like my DD does and Chloe's doesn't. I know of one other DD who gets headaches, so we are 2 for 1. <----this is all so scientific you know.... HAHA!

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

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by bsc » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:27 pm

My younger daughter, untreated and in denial about mental illness, has very bad headaches. She says her Dr called them migraines. I so rarely believe anything she says, I doubt she went to a dr.

But I do believe she has the headaches. Takes extra strength aspirins.

Theres my 2c.

 

     ----------------------

 

7. When Did It Start? (DD)

by Bri » Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:41 am

I'm reposting this from a comment by Breaking Point in "Delusional Disorder - Making Sense Of It", so we can discuss it more in depth.

Breaking Point wrote:Enough of me...I just wanted to throw this out there in here...and tell me if this has happened to anyone else. I have been with my DDJ for 3 years and while there were signs of jealousy in the beginning, it was nothing over the top and very infrequent. It was just over a year into our relationship, he looked me in the face and told me he loved me. I had told him several times by this time and he only would nod, and maybe the odd me too as his response. From that very day forward was when the Jealousy Beast appeared and not subtly either. Once the "I Love You" was released, and he kept repeating it for days, was the beginning of my nightmare. It was the very next day that he said I signalled to someone out the window. I'll never forget thinking, (after first laughing my head off) he has to get more sleep. Wow...if that was the only problem! Anyway it seems that the I Love You triggered some kind of switch in his brain that has no way of turning off. Even the "I Hate You's" and I've had plenty of those since then, don't seem to combat it. So I just wondered if anybody had experienced anything like this with their partner?



The moment my DDJ went full blown was the day my male friend came to my house and dropped off a coat I had left at his house almost a year before. My DDJ was never the same after that. I can't tie his blow out to "I Love You" because that didn't come until much later, however, the moment we fall in love is not necessarily the same time we say the words. It could be my DDJ fell in love and that is why he blew up when the coat came, although we didn't say the actual words until months later. I think DDJ's have a general suspicion about their partner always, but I think if they are not "in love" there is an indifference, which in turn keeps the DD to a minimum. When they have feelings of "love", the partner then is much more of a threat and, therefore, the DD is much more active.

Just an added note of interest for comedy sake (cuz there's so little of it with DD)....the 3rd time my DDJ left me (11 days), he was mad about a myspace post I put on an ex-boyfriends' page that said "Merry Christmas...Luv you...Bri". Keep in mind this ex was 15 years ago. We remained friends, but do not hang out. That post was nothing more than friendliness. Anyway, when my DDJ came back and we were arguing, he said "You told him you loved him and you don't even tell ME that!" I was astounded because yes, I loved him (my DDJ), but the reason I never said it was (1) he had never said it to me, and (2) I might have done it first, except he had already left me 3 times! I said back to him, "Is THAT what you want to hear? That I love you? Okay! I LOVE YOU! But YOU KNOW I do. WHO ELSE would put up with all this? I would have said it long before now, except you keep LEAVING ME!" He didn't really know WHAT to say then. Anyway, after that, he started telling me he loved me and vice versa. The irony is......how long did he love me before we finally said it? It was like he was waiting for me to say it and was mad that I hadn't, yet HE KEPT LEAVING ME, so how could he expect such a thing.....for real! With that said, I go back to my above theory that he loved me long before we said it, so maybe it is love (and the sexual attraction that goes with it) that triggers full blown DD.

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

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by Breaking Point » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:42 pm

The change in my guy was so obvious....it went from white to black overnight. "I Love You" was my guys trigger, Bri, yours was possibly the coat getting dropped off by your friend. What I am saying is, because my experience was so evident, is it possible it takes some sort of event, which sparks a memory that triggers the delusion. I am really curious, and I hope we get more feedback, if it is a common thread!

I'm gonna share a funny, because you are right Bri...there isn't enough of it in this life we are living. At this very moment, I am not talking to him, because of some accusations that went on earlier...he keeps peeking around the corner to see what I'm doing, he's trying to be so sneaky...anyway, just a second ago he came in and looked under the bed to see who I was hiding? :roll:
I didn't laugh at him, but I am chuckling as I'm sharing with you!

You all have a wonderful day! Chin up!

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by J86 » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:47 pm

If I were him, I too would suspect you cheated, or at least, tried to.. Why did you feel the need to wish your ex bf a merry christmas and tell him that you loved him? Did he even say the same thing to you before you did? I don't think so.. Say it to your bf instead.. the one you claim you loved more than any other guy.

I think he has some good reasons to suspect you were unfaithful. He doesn't sound delusional at all..

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by Bri » Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:31 pm

J86 wrote:If I were him, I too would suspect you cheated, or at least, tried to.. Why did you feel the need to wish your ex bf a merry christmas and tell him that you loved him? Did he even say the same thing to you before you did? I don't think so.. Say it to your bf instead.. the one you claim you loved more than any other guy.

I think he has some good reasons to suspect you were unfaithful. He doesn't sound delusional at all..


Well, this is where rational (versus irrational) thinking comes in. You have to look at everything. I had only known my DDJ a few weeks when I made that Christmas post. I didn't even know we would continue on in our relationship at that point - we had just met. I had NO obligation to him (or anyone) to do or not do any certain thing. Also, the post was to an ex, yes, but we had been broke up for over 13 years. We've stayed friends, but do not hang out (we do write from time to time - nothing exciting). I also posted that SAME POST on MANY people's pages...it was Christmas...that's what you do. I used the word "luv" not "love" like friends do. In NO way was I flirting, cheating, or anything of the kind. I also told my DDJ to write this guy and ask him about it, as he (my DDJ) would be told there is nothing going on. Why could I do this? Because I had nothing to hide. But, most importantly, when my DDJ asked me about it, and I told him the truth, he should have been able to believe me. There was no reason for him to blow it out of proportion (except that he has DD and cannot think rationally)....end of story.

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

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by Breaking Point » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:33 am

HOLY SMOKIE DOKIE! Bri, you certainly didn't have to defend yourself like that! I couldn't quite believe what I was hearing...until I checked out some other posts written by our little visitor. Lets get back on track here, ok!

By the By, he's off to the dark side again today!

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by peytonmanning18 » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:04 pm

For what it's worth I agree, posting "Luv you" on an old friend's (ex's) Myspace page isn't remotely flirtatious.

A healthy secure adult shouldn't feel threatened by this at all.

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by princessalu » Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:33 pm

I can still remember the day it happened. It was December 6, 2005. I had been very sick because I had just had surgery the month before and I developed Hepatitis A shortly after my surgery. My husband had been taking care of me for 4 weeks, and that day he decided to go back to work. He called me that morning to see how I was doing and he sounded fine. When he came home that evening he was a changed man. I knew the instant I saw him that something was wrong with him. I asked him what was wrong and he didn't even respond. He looked like he was very upset and had been crying. I thought someone had died in his family. When he finally decided to talk to me he started going off about how he ran into someone that used to know me (name unknown, I think he made it up) and that person just happened to tell him everything I had done. He said that that person confirmed everything he had ever suspected about me. That he knew for years (at least 15 years) that I had been cheating on him with not one but numerous persons. That now he had proof of it, and that I had to confess and tell him everything, who I slept with, when and how many times. He also said that he knew this because I used to come home from work smelling of sex, that I used to come home with hickies (untrue), and that several times he used to call me at work and was told I wasn't at work that day. Well, I have a direct dial and nobody answers my phone except for me, so explain that. That's when my hell started and my life has never been the same since. I don't know what triggered it to this day. Was it because I had been so sick, that he thought I was going to die? Did he actually run into someone who happened to know me and he assumed things that were not....I don't know. I do remember now that there were signs of his illness. For example, when I would undress after I came home from work he would point at my breasts where the underwire on my bra left a mark, and inquire what that was from...he would often ask me what time I left work, and why it took me so long to get home if I got stuck in traffic...who I went to lunch with...etc. But it was never as severe as the day it all started. He was 48 years old when it happened.

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by Bri » Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:41 am

Thanks guys for supporting me on the "Christmas post" issue!

princessalu:

Very interesting, as your husband seemed to have such a late start. 48 you said? Although he did say he had had those thoughts for 15 years. However, most DDs cannot keep it to themselves for 15 years. It's odd he was able to do that until just one particular day when he runs into a mysterious friend and out it all comes. The changing "overnight" is strange, as usually DD is progressive. Has he had a physical exam? Is it possible he has an organic (brain tumor, lesion, etc) or neurological illness (Parkinson's, Huntingtons, meningitis, etc) that is causing his DD (instead of a dopamine chemical imbalance that is the usual culprit)?? Just curious...

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

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by pilpos » Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:36 pm

My husband was about 47 when his DDS occurred. It seemed like overnight to me too. I can remember it like it was yesterday and it was 8 years ago. It was about 3 weeks from our 25th wedding anniversary. He called me upstairs and I had no idea anything was wrong. He asked me if I had been cheating and wanted to see all my leave slips from work for the last year. I was shocked as he was never jealous before in our marriage. It floored me that is happend so fast. I was to learn that he had been thinking these thoughts for months but never confronted me until then. As the illiness progressed it went from just cheating to cheating for the 25 years we were married with various men. Of course I knew it wasn't true but I could never convince him. He put notes in my cars saying he caught me, he said he put tracking devices in my car and the mileage would come out to the nearest hotel, he would tell my girls when I was shopping that I was out with my boyfriend. It got so bad that he thought our kids weren't even his. Just sad how much both the sick person and the sane person loose with this illiness.

pilpos

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by princessalu » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:26 pm

I don't think there is anything physically wrong with him. I think he always had these thoughts. I remember him accusing me as far back as 20 years ago, but I never took them seriously. He got it full blown in 2005 and has never recovered. What I do notice is different from the other cases I have seen here is that he won't leave me. Even though he says he hates me he doesn't leave. One day he did say that he was going to live only to make me pay for what I did.

princessalu

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8. Team Stay vs Team Go

by Bri » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:11 pm

Anyone who has been in a relationship with a DD ends up being on one of two teams - Team Stay or Team Go (both are painful). Anyone who's gone through a break up knows what "go" looks like. The hurt, the worry, missing them, a finality, all that. It's the same leaving your DD. Those who try to "stay" with their DD is also painful and most have little success. Either the DD leaves anyway (partner has no say), or the situation becomes so consuming, partners find there is NO LIFE outside of the DD's make-believe world. No matter what team you choose to be on, you lose. Plain and simple. Though I chose Team Stay and have done it for 3 yrs now, I would never recommend it. Damage control can be gained by leaving the DD. The sooner, the better. However, I know many of you (like me) have all kinds of reasons you don't want to leave. Some of them quite valid. It's hard to up and leave someone you love, or have spent years with, or have kids with, etc. I can't tell you what to do, but I can tell you what being on Team Stay looks like. I want you to be aware of what can happen if you choose to stay.

The following is a quote from a January 21, 2009, post I made. I want to restate it, so I can then share the update. Where I am now.

Bri wrote:

Just wanted to add a note here for those trying to decide to stay with their DDJ or not. If you do decide to stay, realize that this is the MOST SACRIFICIAL relationship you will ever have. Maybe even more so than with your own children. The way you handle a DDJ goes against EVERYTHING you ever learned about relationships and boundaries.

If you are selfish, busy, demanding, or proud; weak, insecure, or needy; if you like deadlines, accountability, straightforwardness, security, promises, or commitments, etc., THIS IS NOT FOR YOU! GET OUT NOW! Maintaining complete neutrality and loving them UNCONDITIONALLY (and I mean that literally) are absolute musts in handling a DDJ. If you cannot do this, you have already lost the battle. Take your gun and go home.

Everybody comes to a place where the finally realize what DDJ is all about, that it's uncurable, and difficult to treat. After you get through the I'm SO ANGRY and it's all SO UNFAIR stage, you come to a point of acceptance, which then leads to you having to make a decision - Stay? or Go? One thing that goes round and round in my mind when I'm trying to make this decision is...If I stay, it means I ACCEPT this illness and ALL THAT GOES WITH IT. So, every bad thing he's ever done or said in relation to this problem is acceptable. That he will do it again is acceptable. That when you make a decision to stay, you are saying that you accept ALL of it. You don’t' get to pick and choose the behaviors you want or don't want. IT'S ALL OR NOTHING.

This abolutely means you will be tolerating things you always learned were UNHEALTHY. You will have no boundaries, you will give no ultimatums. You cannot draw lines in the sand and expect results. All expected behavior you have learned through your human experience will NOT APPLY. It's a perfect picture of unpredictability. Neither manipulation nor reason will work with a DDJ. You will live a life where it is played out moment by moment with NO GUARANTEES. This way of life is probably impossible for most.

 

So that post was 2 years ago, one year into the relationship with my DDJ, for a total of 3 years with him now. I wasn't living any high life before I met my DDJ, but I was certainly functioning. I had a home, friends of over 20 years, job, a few health problems, and hope for my ship to come in any day. In dealing with my DDJ, the stress became so great, I had a nervous breakdown. I'm on several meds for this now. Staying with my DDJ continued to generate stress, therefore, I could not really get better. I worked for another year after that (been there 16 yrs) until I found I could no longer perform. Also, driving while medicated is not a good idea...wrecked my car twice (nothing serious). So, I left my job last June and now struggle with maintaining my home. It is up for sale. And, sad to say, due to all the drama, I lost 3 out of 4 of my closest and longest friends. I no longer look for a ship to come in because I know now that it sank. I have gone from a functioning person to a medicated zombie, who cannot think past the immediate moment. I can no longer work and take care of myself, so I will be selling the house and moving in with my son. The stress has jacked my system up so badly I actually have tremors (like I'm 70!). No, I don't recommend trying to be brave and loyal and stay with your DDJ. If there is ANY way you can go, please do. If not, at least you can be prepared for what it may look like for you in the future.

I hope each and every one of you survive this horrible and destructive illness...some way....some how...Peace

At the feast of ego, everybody leaves hungry...

Bri

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by jasmin » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:42 pm

(((((((((((Bri))))))))))) I'm so sorry things ended up like this for you. You'll still get to be around your son, though, and maybe you will start feeling better some day. Sorry I didn't reply to you sooner. I was wondering about how you're doing.

jasmin

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by dozer » Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:47 am

Well said Bri. I've posted only a few times on this board but have found strength and abundant information through reading others posts. I must admit that I had trouble following your posts but I think this made your situation much more clear for me because I can certainly relate.

I am still on Team Stay at this point. I had 19 great years of marriage followed by 4 years of DD hell (not officially diagnosed but my belief). I also have 2 young adult children. So why do I stay? I have 2 main reasons: My faith and my children.

On my faith, I am trying to stay true to my marriage vows of "in sickness and in health". If the roles were reversed, I would hope that my wife would do the same. I think God throws me little messages like he did today when our Priest reitarated the meaning of living the faith including "in sickness and in health". God never intended life to be easy, he just wanted us to be faithful. Look what he did to his only Son. I know this sounds preachy and I'm not an outwardly messaging Christian (an "in your face" Christian if you will). This is just what "I" believe. I really believe that I am sacrificing to take care of my wife, even though she really doesn't want my help or really doesn't see it that way. She perceives me as "hurting" her, not helping her. And to make it interesting, God decided to give me Stage IV cancer last Summer. That certainly has added an interesting dynamic.

As for my children, they are now young adults. But I don't think of them separately from my wife. I think of all of us together still as a single unit. When we recently celebrated Christmas and birthdays, we still did it together. If I left, that would be gone. I feel like I would lose or damage my relationship with my children. The truth about why I left would never be clear and they would see me as a quitter I suppose.

Now all that being said, not a day goes by where I don’t think about leaving. I don’t think about the material things that would be lost (my house, most of my money, etc.). I just think about letting God and my children down. I’ve endured being told that God gave me cancer because of all the things I have done, countless accusations of spying and breaking into her bedroom, and most recently being told that she is not going to take care of me anymore. I’ve endured all this and I like you Bri am not the same person anymore. It's hard to see a happy ending to this life. But I am still hopeful.

dozer

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by Betternow » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:03 am

dear dozer, I'm sorry to hear about your wife. I was diagnosed with delusional disorder when I was 20. I think you have a lot of courage and strength to stay with your wife. I had a boyfriend at the time I was diagnosed who was (and even after we broke up - another story) has been a pillar of strength for me. Your situation, I know is different, because you have built a life with your wife. I can relate to you though on the issue of faith. I don't know if your wife has the same faith as you do, but what helped me immensely was focusing on God and constantly reminding myself that He, more than my situation, my worries, my thoughts, is so much greater. The words, "and the things of this world will grow strangely dim in light of His glory and grace" remained with me as a source of strength.

Another thing that helped me is dealing with secondary issues like depression and anxiety. Not everyone experiences these things with DD, but getting help for other aspects of my mental health helped me to be able to cope with, and eventually be basically rid of, the delusions. I think the more you remember that your wife to some extent, can't help having the thoughts she does, the better.
Take heart.

Betternow

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